Superior Solution To Improve Vertical And Horizontal FOV Depending On Aspect Ratio

I have talked with several forum members in public and in private and tried to produce a better solution to the current Horizontal plus method that Grim Dawn uses.

1. The Problem
The currently known methods are.

Hor+ (horizontal plus) is the most common scaling method for the majority of modern video games. In games with hor+ scaling the vertical FOV is fixed, while the horizontal FOV is expandable depending on the aspect ratio of the rendering resolution; a wider aspect ratio results in a larger FOV. Since the majority of screens used for gaming nowadays are widescreen, this scaling method is usually preferred as wider aspect ratios do not suffer from reduced FOV with it. This becomes especially important in more “exotic” setups like ultra-wide monitor or triple-monitor gaming.

The opposite of this is :

Vert- (vertical minus) is a scaling method used by some games that support a wide variety of resolutions. In vert- games, as the aspect ratio widens, the vertical component of the field of view is reduced to compensate. This avoids distortion of objects in the game world but results in a smaller field of view on widescreen resolutions, and may become especially problematic with extremely wide resolutions, such as those common on multiple-display setups

Another :

Pixel-based scaling is almost exclusively used in games with two-dimensional graphics. With pixel-based scaling, the amount of content displayed on screen is directly tied to the rendering resolution. A larger horizontal resolution directly increases the horizontal field of view, and a larger vertical resolution increases the vertical field of view.[

These methods all fail to address the problem, and the problem is that these systems punish users depending on what monitor they have !

For example with Hor+ method, ultrawide 21:9 users benefit the most, while the rest 16:9, 16:10, 4:3 get increasingly less and less horizontal FOV.

Vertical minus on the other hand punished users with wide and ultra-wide monitors. The wider it gets the less vertical usable area they get.

Pixel based scaling means the more pixels your monitor has the bigger the advantage and more game environment you are able to see.

2. The Solution

Since i personally think you are a fantastic and one of the most dedicated team of programmers and game designers i know of, i will suggest to you a solution that will work if i am not mistaken.

This solution is a custom one that you will use for your unique product called Grim Dawn.
Firstly let’s consider 4 aspect ratios that people use and play games on : 21:9, 16:9, 16:10, 4:3
Each person wants the best experience with Grim Dawn regardless of what monitor he/she has.

What can you do about this ? The solution is simple. Address their problems individually and increase customer satisfaction.

For each aspect ratio you have to provide a custom solution in the form of custom horizontal and vertical Fov. (field of view)
The biggest complain of people is that better PC resolutions such as 16:10 or even 4:3 not the TV format 16:9 gets punished more in games.
In a logical and rational world, if 16:9 provides more horizontal FOV then 16:10 must provide more vertical Fov.

Hor+ rule is wrong, but easy to implement.

If i have 1920 x 1200 compared to 1080p i want 120 pixels more for vertical Fov, but that is called Pixel-based scaling and we don’t want that because some people have 2560 x 1600.

You want to give something to everyone. Don’t punish the widescreen users, but also don’t punish users with normal screens.

Set a custom vertical and horizontal Fov so the game looks fantastic and special every time for each aspect ratio category.

Play with values until you are satisfied with your results.

a) For all 21:9 screens (2560×1080 / 3840 x 1440) vast horizontal fov, normal vertical FOV. (similar to what you have now vertically if you want)

b) For all 16:9 screens (1366 x 768 / 1920 x 1080 / 2560 x 1440 / 3840 x 2160) generous horizontal FOV, but considerably more vertical Fov than 21:9.

c) For all 16:10 screens (1280×800 / 1440×900 / 1680×1050 / 1920×1200 / 2560×1600) above average horizontal Fov, even more dramatic vertical Fov than 16:9.

d) For all 4:3 screens (1024×768, 1280×960, 1400×1050, 1440×1080 , 1600×1200, 1856×1392, 1920×1440, 2048×1536) normal horizontal Fov, bigger vertical than 16:10.

This way you make Grim Dawn feel special, always in the sweet spot and add a unique flavor and experience for every major aspect ratio and monitor user.

This solution is not a zoom request but a proper way to represent every aspect ratio with a proper and unique vertical and horizontal Fov.

Is anything impossible to accomplish in my suggestion ?

Thank you.

Actually I am unsure what the cause for your thoughts regarding this topic is.
What is the actual problem that you try to solve?
From what I gather it has to do with field-of-view being somehow inconsistent between resolutions, but what is the actual harm done by that?

I’m asking because:

a) You present lots of technical talk that most people might not even bother to read, yet you do not present the basic problem that lead you to write your post.
Putting that clearly might give readers a better understanding of what this thread is about.

b) I recently switched from a more than a decade old CRT monitor to a new widescreen monitor, going from 1600x1200 pixels to 1920x1080.
It was almost a shock, updating my monitor setup after so many years.
And still the FOV issue you refer to did not present itself to me.
Probably I have witnessed it - I just didn’t notice it because I didn’t see or feel the issue.

More info here : http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51195

16:10 and 4:3 get penalized with less horizontal FOV, without gaining more vertical FOV.
Even 16:9 compared to 21:9.

The current HOR+ method penalizes less wide monitors without giving more vertical FOV to them as it should.

The developers will understand and they will bother reading.

See the link i posted above with images.

If you were to move from 1080p to 1200p you would end up with less horizontal FOV but NO extra vertical FOV, despite the fact that 16:10 is TALLER and should gain extra vertical FOV and lose horizontal FOV.

How do they get penalized?
What do you think they are loosing?
What do you think it will do, gameplay-wise, to change the FoV?

Hence, if you move from a 19201200 to a 16801050, both 16:10 screen, you should get less FoV as the screen is smaller, no?

After having had a look at the other thread I must say that I think of this issue as being a rather esoteric one.
You’ll see what the devs have to say, but I wouldn’t count on them tinkering with the engine to implement changes that would likely only affect a few people - of which probably, again, only a few people would even regard those changes as important.

As said - I went from 4:3 to 16:9 and didn’t even notice anything weird about the FOV. Perhaps that’s because I often rotate the camera anyway to maximize my FOV in the direction that my character is walking or that I expect enemies to come from; I dunno.
I feel though that this issue is so minuscule that it might not warrant any significant developer-resources to be spent.

But what do I know, perhaps this is really easy to solve on the dev’s end?

I think Peredur has questions, but then he says they are not questions, are you trolling me Peredur on the forum ? :
Like here : http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showpost.php?p=478969&postcount=23

You think i have something with 21:9 monitor users but i don’t !


Nonetheless i am a human being and i will try to be civilized to you.

NOW.

16:9 gets less horizontal FOV than 21:9. This is correct. But 16:9 should get slightly more vertical FOV. Why ? because it has a different aspect ratio.

16:10 gets less horizontal FOV than 16:9. This is correct. But 16:10 should get slightly more vertical FOV than 16:9. Why ? because it has a different aspect ratio.

4:3 gets less horizontal FOV than 16:10. This is correct. But 4:3 should get slightly more vertical FOV than 16:10. Why ? because it has a different aspect ratio.

It is fair to lose horizontal FOV on less wide monitors, but it is wrong not to gain any vertical FOV as you approach square monitors !

This is the problem with HOR+ scaling.

Game-play wise people with high quality 16:10 or 4:3 professional monitors will enjoy the game more since more vertical FOV will compensate some of the losses from less horizontal FOV.

Paradur if you move from a 19201200 to a 16801050, both 16:10 screen, the FOV will be the same on ALL 16:10 aspect ratio monitors and that means less horizontal FOV compared to 16:9 and more vertical FOV compared to 16:9.

Is that hard for you to understand ?
Or :

They don’t have to play with the engine.
Just set some standard values for vertical and horizontal FOV depending on 4 big aspect ratios. So that the game looks good on all 4 not get benefit on 16:9 horizontally and cut the corners on 16:10 without adding some vertical FOV to respect the aspect ratio.

16:9 has a massive advantage over 4:3 in this game.
Try to go back to 4:3 and check how much horizontal you lose and you gain nothing vertically.

Let the developers talk don’t attack my idea just because you can, especially if you are not a programmer or game designer.

Here are two examples.
16:9

16:10

The code should look like this :

When 21:9 is detected set horizontal fov to X1 value and vertical fov fo Y1 value.

When 16:9 is detected set horizontal fov to X2 value and vertical fov fo Y2 value.

When 16:10 is detected set horizontal fov to X3 value and vertical fov fo Y3 value.

When 4:3 is detected set horizontal fov to X4 value and vertical fov fo Y4 value.

It won’t take more than one day to find the right FOV values.

16:9 :
https://s23.postimg.org/jvjxyy049/1920x1080.jpg
16:10 : https://s28.postimg.org/hmy6sc617/1920x1200.jpg

That doesn’t answer any of my questions.

To simplify, just answer the first one: what with the current solution affects and penalizes your gameplay?

Why do you choose one time to compare the ratios and another the pixels?
You can’t say that a 19201200 screen is bigger than a 19201080 screen hence it deserves a bigger FoV, then say that a 16801050 screen is the same ratio than a 19201200 screen hence it deserves the same FoV.
It’s not consistent.

PS : yes, they need to modify the engine to set your modifications

PPS : you can answer with only one message each time

which is exactly what happens

but it is wrong not to gain any vertical FOV as you approach square monitors !

why ? So everyone sees the same size area irrespective of ratio ? That would mean that the wider your monitor the less you would see ahead, which is awful.

As it is everyone sees ahead by the same amount but less on the sides, which makes a lot more sense given that you are usually walking up / forward, not sideways or down / back

Game-play wise people with high quality 16:10 or 4:3 professional monitors will enjoy the game more since more vertical FOV will compensate some of the losses from less horizontal FOV.

and that is where you are wrong, more space on the sides does not compensate for loss at the top, as you are usually facing up

Vertical FOV is much more important than horizontal FOV, so you cannot increase horizontal to compensate for the loss of vertical FOV.

tbh, this isn’t a game where FOV matters much

Of course, no surprises there, you will always be unsatisfied, you don’t want answers you just want to troll my topic.

The current solution punishes 16:10 and 4:3 the hardest.

You can see more horizontally with 21:9. People want to see more vertically with aspect ratio such as 16:10 or 4:3

The current solution is what everybody else uses. HOR+ is called.

FOV is BASED ON ASPECT RATIO NOT ON RESOLUTION OR MONITOR SIZE !

http://www.displaywars.com/24-inch-16x10-vs-24-inch-16x9
Do the math.

That is how much more vertical FOV i want for 16:10 compared to 16:9.

16:10 24" is bigger than 16:9 24" .
I can say that. But it is the aspect ratio that matters.

16:10 always deserves bigger vertical FOV.
Going to repeat, i don’t want to punish 21:9, i just want fair treatment to 16:9, 16:10 and 4:3 aspect ratios.

You’re still not replying to this simple question :
how, gameplay-wise, does this punishes 16:10 or 4:3 users?

I am not wrong my friend because i did my homework before talking, you don’t understand what i am saying.

For 21:9 keep current height, for 16:9, 16:10 and 4:3 give more vertical. Nobody loses.

It matters to 15-20% of users.

I want a compensation in vertical fov for 16:9 but especially for 16:10 and 4:3.

Why ? Because i want to see more environment when i play the game, but in a vertical way.

Because i have taller (vertical) aspect ratio, just like you have more horizontal aspect ratio.

Any more questions ?

You get more horizontal fov, i want more vertical fov for my monitors.

So, you’re saying it has no impact on your gameplay and you’re asking for the change because you want to see further away and not to correct an issue you’re suffering because of your screen ratio, isn’t it?

PS : you still don’t need to flood by multiposting.


It has an impact on my gameply and i am asking these changes not because i want to see further away, but because i want to correct an issue that i am suffering which is called Hor + method that doesn’t work well on 16:10 and 4:3 aspect ratio.

Try to play on 4:3 for example, i dare you and all 21:9 users.

For the last time: HOW?

If you can’t explain your problem, it means you don’t understand your problem and maybe there is simply no problem.

it doesn’t, peripheral vision in grim dawn doesn’t matter, stuff starts running at you (the center) at around 70% of the screen

and I played dota2 on a 4:3, a game where peripheral vision matters, A LOT, so I know what I’m talking about