[The Crucible] Perceived shift in difficulty - especially Crowd Control against players

Your excerpt is mostly irrelevant but my question is answered here

Which makes it extra hard for melee FS builds. And it’s not like there are a lot of them around.

best thread ive seen in months :rofl:



I made a 240K dps Sabo.

Looks drool inducing on paper in all aspects

To my relative surprise (didn’t have high expectations anyway) while performance was sub mediocre as expected - 7 min or smth like that, maybe 6:30 on agreat one…the build was immortal. It did shit damage but refused to die under any circumstance. build for pure DPS ans just mindless facetanking.

Sabo is not that papaer like some say (using a melee combo considered meh for FS as example)

Lifesteal and survivability is not the issue of FS esecially DW. Lifesteal is also great with capped explosive strike on DW. It’s very good at that. too bad more of the flat phys on it can’t be properly converted. Otherwise would be pretty bleastly

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yeah i always try to max out explosive strike, and definitely notice a difference with damage, aoe and better life steal.

May I take a look at that magnificent sabo?
Cuz chaos sabo, with similar dps and high adcth is paper thin.


Was that dual Voidspire Chaos Sabo? I made that one too. Sick paper dps but adtch was seriously lacking. And it wasn’t really consistent (also seriously sub-par to Rah’Zin’s WH).

I also did make some pretty fast melee FS builds, but one’s adtch is carried but 60% converted Bat(6-6:30m build) bound to main attack and other one’s adtch is carried by SR set, and Nex and Ortus set(5:30-6m build). So I have quite a bit of experience in making melee FS builds work. But on its own melee FS is very lacking. Melee builds connousseur @banana_peel would confirm it.

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No no, old fire sabo tribute to jajaja, was supposed to be, but maybe this patch it will be a bit buffed on FS side, i hope

Sure, bit later, but it’s fire sabo

I’m surprised people still think that ideas&feedback system works :rofl:


Well the thread is still not locked, and no one has been banned yet, so the discussion is still ongoing and it might be premature to assume ideas and feedback system doesnt work. Everyone could still glean something from this resource.

Crucible is definitely harder now. It is the only thing I play in Grim Dawn anymore. My piloting skills are mediocre - but I do feel the shift towards Crucible becoming tougher. I rarely can clear 150-170 waves these days . 1 /10 seems to be the norm for me, whereas earlier it used to 5 /10

So this is intentional then?

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Having been hanging around the forums and playing since around B13 I’d actually argue, at least from what I review in build threads, that we’ve gotten drastically worse instead better. All I see in every “best ever” style build thread is poorly documented anecdotal evidence and cherry picked speed runs. I haven’t seen a detailed numbers breakdown in years explaining why gear piece X is more useful than Y, or why what appears to be a 5% difference somehow makes the build (because it almost certainly doesn’t). From an in-depth math and related mechanics breakdown standpoint, these forums are a disaster compared to most other major arpgs (@malawiglenn and @tqFan excluded off the top of my head). Maybe it all happens on the russian discord and never sees the light of day, but from what gets posted here, it looks like a series of poorly controlled experiments producing sometimes brilliant, sometimes questionable takeaways. Compounding that is then the audacity, in the lack of any of this hard data, to claim across the board understanding of what is best in almost every other build and feedback thread that pops up. I don’t think anyone is discrediting the time spent playing and intuitive understanding that comes from that, but ultimately the game boils down to numbers at the end of the day and that side of the discussion has been absent for a long time.


Converted phys does is not checked by armor

It is known and was discussed :slight_smile:

Sweet testing though

glad that developers are aware.
the question is: is it a hole in a game engine or a direct decision?
and how did it affected physical gear and conversions in general?

You need to read this thread in more detail

so we are fine with the inequality between converted phys and normal phys?
and won’t do anything about it?

One solution is to make it a feature via a lore note.

Do I misremember that there was a time when DW was the only viable form of melee, sword and board too slow, 2h too inconsistent?

I don’t know. But I do know that when I finally managed to convert the remainder of physical damage to elemental via bysmiel’s butterknife (mindweaver) on skeletons my killing speed skyrocketed.

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At this late stage of the game’s development, no.


I sometimes test builds for days before posting them. That’s already a lot of time spent on a hobby. Writing a huge write-up about why “a” is better than “b” is something that I have no time no desire to do. There is also no use breaking down same mechanics over and over again. If you want to ask me about some of the decisions I made when creating my builds, you can do that and I will gladly answer. But ain’t nobody doing encyclopedia write-ups anymore.

Another thing that I find funny and sweet about those build guides from vanilla is that a lot of those builds were far from optimized despite huge number break-down etc. Simply because there was no need to test them against super harsh endgame (which didn’t exist back then), so a lot of things worked.

How the turn tables! Two-handed physical melee meta is much stronger than dw and s&b one (the latter is almost forgotten, lol), although it’s carried solely by Blade Arc.

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

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