The Nerfing Issue Investigation

Grim Dawn Gameplay Discussion
1

Every time a patch or update comes out it generates a myriad of responses from players about their character abilities have been nerfed.

WOW - Like this does not happen in real life - nothing stays constant?

Really - Have not you ever had or done…

Purchased shares that were worth a fortune only to end up as worthless values?
Purchased the top of line and bleeding edge PC only to realize 3 year later it is mediocre?
Purchased the latest smart phone and ending up 6 months later with an inferior product?

Could bench press 150kg only now to battle to pick up a dustbin?
Could run 20k without losing a breath and now gasp when walking to the car?
Could swim 40 lengths and now just cannot get out of the bathtub?
Could punch someone out like a piledriver and now he wipes his noses and laughs at you?
Could read all the text on a billboard 100 meters away and now cannot see the latest headlines on a TV?
Could speed in a car at 230kmh now to get caught and arrested at 130kmh?

…
…

The list could go on and on.
This happens in real life, so why these changes should not be expected to happen in the Grim Dawn world?

What do do with a nerf?
Get over it - crap happens - look for ways to workaround and compensate like we all do in real life.
Stop being a bunch of whiners and deal with and adapt to the situation :cowboy_hat_face:

9 Likes
2

well said friend, I don’t know where people think all of the whining will lead to, Grim Dawn will ever truly be a perfect/finished game when Crate basically give up on it and do no more changes are made to it

1 Like
3

Or make builds with MIs because crate only nerfs the legendaries that the masses can access with minimal relative effort?

1 Like
4

So you want people to not give feedback and just shut up?

Yeah, that will help with the balance for sure /s

Let us also scrap the Ideas and Feedback section while we are at it.

5 Likes
5

Nope, on the contrary. Any change in the dynamics is a great topic for balance, ideas and feedback comments. It is up to you how you handle these in the game.

6

lol oh my god this thread could become pure gold if well all continued the trend of examples!!

Could go all night without waking up to piss
Could stay out all night partying till 4am and be up and out the door at 6
Could approach public transportation with fascination and intrigue!

1 Like
7

Then I don’t see the point of this thread. It is not that people don’t expect changes, it is that some don’t like said changes and are being vocal about it.

While screaming at the devs in frustration might not be the best way to let Crate know what is wrong and what needs to be fixed, I rather have people scream than just stay silent.

2 Likes
8

Well put, but unfortunately that is what happens in reality, humanity always resists change and up till now no amount of screaming has ever changed any course of events. The screaming however should go on as that is their right and hope that their views will be heard and addressed.

9

I will have to disagree considering I screamed too when FG was released and Callagadra was eating pets alive.

Then it was changed to not eat as much.

As long as there is a valid complaint, letting the devs know in as polite manner as possible is a good thing, EVEN IF YOU TYPE IN ALL CAPS!!!

2 Likes
10

Nerfs are part of the game. Every patch open new number of possibilities, like how many people were playing AAR before the piercing was add?

Still sometimes, when something was nerfed for non apparent reason or important skill mod was removed /redesigned, you can expect some players to be disappointed.

Still no need of #dead builds :slight_smile:

1 Like
11

But then we won’t have people claiming #deadbuilds.

12

also #deadgame

On a more serious note. We play, we convey our experiences, we convey the actual builds, videos, etc.

And Z listens… (unless it’s for totems and wind devils and olexra’s flash freeze. But I haven’t given up!)

1 Like
13

Nerfing and beyond throughout history

Let’s have a quick look for the argument and need for nerfs in games like Grim Dawn.
As per my previous post they do actually exist in real life anyway.

Let’s look at a few practical examples …

MIDDLE AGES :
Knights had full body armor and were almost invulnerable to damage by axe,sword and other existing weapons.
(Does this sound like a build you made?)

Wow, all of a sudden the longbow appeared and knights were getting killed as the arrows could pierce the armor.
(You had zero pierce resistance to the new arrows)

!!! OUCH COMPLAIN our Knights armor has just got nerfed*

Did they ask for the war rules to be changed?
No, they had to adapt and change their strategy.
The new Knights had to back off and stay out of range of the new weapon and devise different ways to adapt.

EARLY WORLD WARS :
Ok, now we are out of range and safe out of harm’s way.
Yes, we have new equipment that have bayonets and short range projectiles.
All is going well and we are now smashing our enemy.

Wrong - the enemy has developed longer and more deadly long range than you have.

!!! OUCH COMPLAIN our range attack and retaliation has just got nerfed*

You can see where I am coming from and going with this …
Grim Dawn is an evolving environment and will ALWAYS find a way to react to any overpowered situations that appear to be unstoppable.

In the game these are called NERFS, but in reality this happens anyway due to natural progression and adaptation.
If you were a Knight in the middle ages or a Soldier in the trenches of WW1 you had to adapt or die if something changed the way you did combat.

Grim Dawn is actually not so different.
I have had many builds that have had to be addressed after any NERF changes. I actually see it though as a change and advancement of the enemy’s ability to adapt and counter my skills and abilities.

THE ENEMIES - do not stop evolving
I - do not stop evolving

I rest my case - if NERFS are a problem then the majority of mankind’s wars would have ended up very differently.

14

In this example, is it not fair to say that the Developers are the scientists and engineers and minds behind the inventions of new weapons and armors that allow for new combat adaptations?

If thats the case then your example is the soldiers (players) way of war (gameplay) gets nerfed, the soldiers (players) complain to the scientists and engineers and great minds of their time (Developers) about how some weapons are deadly (OP). Then the scientists, engineers, and great minds of thier time (Developers) …conduct research and development (listening to player feedback and implementing relevant changes) and new weapons of war and armors are introduced to the battlefield (game).

Thats what youre saying right? Just trying to follow…

1 Like
15

op seems to think nerf is always a positive things, never a negative thing. what with all the lesson about nerfing in real life history and how human adapts around it. that doesn’t really match what happens in gd or games like it.

unlike the survival at all cost and do or die nature of real life nerfs, in these games, nerfs and buffs are meant to enhance entertainment values. which needs to be adjusted according to player requests/feedbacks/complaints and developer vision/capability. some nerf are just minor obstacle that can be get around with. some nerf can significantly weaken several builds. some nerf can completely kill players’ enjoyment of the game. this is why devs and players need to differentiate what is constructive feedbacks and what is nonsensical rant from looking at players’ complaints.

if you see some player ranting nonsensically about something that makes you feels distracted, its better to ask them to clarify their problems and discuss how to solve it, rather than demanding them to stop ranting forever (if said player is trolling or keep holding into nulled arguments, then shutting them up is ok).

1 Like
16

I’m all up for changing things as needed, but ultimately what drove me away from PoE was how often they changed the game. As a fairly casual player, it was just way too much to keep up with. I liked how GD was more static in that I could work towards something over months and the league wouldn’t be over and/or the skills wouldn’t be drastically buffed or nerfed.
I guess if things should be changed, then fine, but I must confess that I was a little bummed to see a few aspects of a build I have been working toward for months to be nerfed a bit.

17

Yup, patches are like season restarts.

2 Likes
18

I remember back in my youth, my stream of piss used to be strong and vigorous. Now, as I’ve aged, my pee stream has been nerfed considerably. Now I need to grunt and push to achieve my previous stream’s strength, but grunting and pushing has its limitations.

The moral of the story is that one man can only grunt and push so much. If you feel like a nerf has left your build feeling inept and feeble, it’s worth bringing it to Z’s attention in an objective, respectable way. There is an optimal level of grunting, however, so don’t expect smooth peeing all of the time :wink:

6 Likes
19

It’s weird that I read this while I’m peeing

1 Like
20

is your stream still end-game viable?

2 Likes