Theorycrafting Dump

I have too many tabs of builds open that I’m never going to get to, meaning I’m never going to be able to make an actual build post for them. So I figure I can do the next best thing: dump them all in a thread, explain the ‘theory’ behind them, and let people run off with them as their own.

So, if you see something you like, feel free to use it, though I don’t have much guidance to offer if you do. Alternatively, if you’re also hoarding tons of builds that you think you’ll never get to, feel free to dump them here.

Here we go.

Vitality Decay Somethingorother: http://www.grimtools.com/calc/JVlqYPjZ

[spoiler]Vitality Decay has always been a DoT that has been behind all the others in terms of usability and gear support. With the release of the Necromancer, I was hoping that could change but I don’t really feel as though Necro was the best way to go. Its Vitality Resist Reduction is too finicky. So, instead, I looked to a new (old) item: Mythical Blood Orb of Ch’thon. The Mythical version of this item converts Acid Damage to Vitality Damage, including Poison -> Vitality Decay. That in mind…

The build takes existing sources of Vitality Decay in Occultist (namely, the metric shitton of it on Second Rite) and combines it with all of the Poison Damage of your traditional Poison Witch Hunter, and then buffs them up with excellent Devotion and Gear support, ultimately feeding a ton of Vitality Decay through a BoM-powered Shadow Strike…alongside Vitality Decay on Nidalla’s Justifiable Ends. I have no idea how powerful this would actually be, but it’s probably on the upper end of what you can accomplish with Vitality Decay at this time.[/spoiler]

The ‘Passive’ Cabalist: http://www.grimtools.com/calc/w26Mw0pN

[spoiler]I’m no DaShiv. It’s clear that he’s more or less the master of designing pet builds. While reapersgaze already has a ‘Skelemancer’ Cabalist build posted, I don’t think it’s as optimized as what I’ve been sitting on, and I don’t think what I’ve been sitting on is as optimized as what DaShiv will come up with…though I have consulted the latter a bit. Here’s why I dislike reapersgaze’s build:

26/16 Summon Skeles is a bad idea. To maximize overall dps, you want to minimize the chance of spawning Mages, and Mages only have their spawn weight increase as you level it. Therefore, I believe that the optimal level to have Summon Skeles is at either 15, 16, or 17. Without doing any testing, I’ve arbitrarily settled on that middle.

Player survivability is most important. After that, pet offensiveness, and then pet defensiveness. My build has about 200 more DA than reapersgaze’s, as well as much better stun resist and better armor. That said, he has significantly better offensive potential due to the overleveled Hellfire Aura. His is probably better for SC, mine for HC. Either way, as it stands, it seems as though the Shepherd of Lost Souls fundamentally and definitively beats out the Mythical Beast Caller’s set.

No one is surprised.[/spoiler]

Wannabe-Devastation Trozan’s Sky Shards: http://www.grimtools.com/calc/r2ByOpzN

[spoiler]Memes.

Trozan’s Sky Shard ordinarily drops 3 projectiles onto a target. Why settle for that when you can drop 6? That would double your chances[sic] of getting a crit to use that juicy crit damage on Shattered Star, as well as the bonus Lightning Damage on the same skill. It would also just generally double your overall area dps, though the DoTs wouldn’t stack. The new Raging Tempest should improve the build significantly as well.

No Blizzard, though, as we move for a more defensive/utility devotion setup. For the ultimate meme, you would probably want Blizzard.[/spoiler]

Octavius.png: http://www.grimtools.com/calc/a2d15Y8V

[spoiler]Octavius is a set that just seems very easy to build around. You’ve probably seen a lot of these already. That said, there’s a bunch of subtle intricacies at play here.

My good friend Klobberfr0g convinced me that the Conduit of Warring Whispers was definitely the right choice for an Octavius build. Octavius converts 60% (average) of Elemental Damage into Physical Damage, including relevant DoTs. The Conduit of Warring Whispers has a prefix to add 210 Burn Damage to Forcewave, the primary skill of the Octavius set. This Burn Damage is essentially a bonus 126 Internal Trauma Damage which the set can scale immensely well.

Other than that, we just build up as defensively as we can with an IT focus, eventually sporting a whopping 61% Physical Resist. I imagine Reflected Damage would not be a major concern for this build.[/spoiler]

The Markovian of Old: http://www.grimtools.com/calc/qNY09BZ6

A hybrid mish-mash Markovian build of my own preferences combined with advice from Superfluff. Standard tank&spank sort of build. I’m not especially satisfied with it on paper, but it seems as though it could be more or less immortal.

Warborn Commando > Markovian…still: http://www.grimtools.com/calc/YZeLxpV8

Basically the above build but with full Warborn set instead of full Markovian. That said, we do utilize two pieces of the Markovian set for some good resists and to buff up Markovian’s Advantage as a mini-Cadence. I like the idea of using Mark of the Dreadblade, because part of the Aether Damage involved will be converted to Physical Damage due to Seal of Blades. It also offers good general stats and a good proc.

Chaos Support Doesn’t Exist - The Build: http://www.grimtools.com/calc/lNkrAQZJ

[spoiler]Well, yeah. There’s basically no Chaos Support for a melee character in the expac. Look at all those greens! It’s like a country field up in here.

That aside, if you actually can put this beast together after 10,000 hours, you’ll probably be more or less a god. Fantastic attack speed, capped resists, capped Cadence, immense flat damage, great Armor, OA, and DA, 15% ADCTH and capped movement speed…this build quite literally has it all.

Too bad it’s virtually impossible to put together legitimately. :rolleyes:[/spoiler]

The Suppressor - 200% Crit Damage Primal Strike: http://www.grimtools.com/calc/4ZDxYQZ7

[spoiler]Once every three seconds, make someone disappear. In between that time, enjoy 200% Cast Speed chain lightning from the Seal of Skies component.

Ever since the nerf to Vortex of Souls I’ve felt as though Ranged Thunderous Strike hasn’t been the way to go. The penalties of the transmuter and the immense attack speed multiplier reduction of 2H ranged just make everything infeasible in the long run. Before the expac, I was using untransmuted Primal Strike with the Raka’jax. Sadly, the Mythical Raka’jax is fairly lackluster, but thankfully there’s an amazing MI waiting to blow gods away.

My gut is telling me that this build should be able to disintegrate mobpacks and bosses alike, but, being a Druid, I’m worried for the build’s long-term performance. Druids still suck due to low DA/Armor, in general.[/spoiler]

You Can’t Hit Me! - Cabalist: http://www.grimtools.com/calc/q2mQXo2j

[spoiler]When most people think of OA and DA, they think about buffing up their crit chance/damage. When this build thinks about OA and DA, it thinks about never ever being crit, and having obscenely low chances to even be hit.

Blood Boil reduces enemy OA by 245 (stacking).
Wasting reduces enemy OA by 350 (stacking).
Seal of Annihilation’s Proc reduces enemy OA by 70 (stacking).

In total, that’s a whopping 665 OA reduction to enemies…on a build that already has 2900 DA. And for those that don’t know, if something has less than 70% chance to hit something, it will not only be hitting very infrequently, but when it hits, it will do less damage. From the game guide, damage reduction in this manner is as follows:

Resultant Damage = Chance_to_Hit/70.

So if something has a 60% chance to hit you, it will only do 85% of its regular damage whenever it does manage to strike you. This is very significant.

Combine that damage reduction with all the regen offered by Sigil of Consumption and Blood Siphon, and you have yourself a god build…albeit with fairly low damage potential of its own.

That said, it takes Fevered Rage, and Fevered Rage’s OA buff will only take effect after the OA debuffs the build has, so it won’t be as significant as usual.

This is one of my favorite build concepts and I do hope I can get around to making it at some point in the near future.[/spoiler]

Valdun’s Slaughterer - Tactician: http://www.grimtools.com/calc/nZoXDbBN

[spoiler]The build responsible for the Valdun’s “nerfs” in 1.0.2.1. Sporting about 600k (applied) dps and a highest-damage-done of 1.2 million in Crucible, this build is a glass cannon the likes of which GD has possibly never seen before.

Following the nerfs, I haven’t quite fingered on a definitive way to use the character sensibly. It was always blowing itself up on reflect and at some point one needs to focus on one’s defenses. As of late, that’s been my goal. The linked build above has sacrificed a great deal of its damage potential to try to beef up to take a hit.

The big worry from Reflect was Internal Trauma on a 22/12 Deadly Momentum. I’ve taken DM down to one point, and suffered the resultant self-nerf. I’ve done a few other things to reduce the build’s damage as well. That said, I’m still easily pushing out upwards of 400k crits in Crucible. The build now also features the Inquisitor Seal for some Damage Absorption, making it somewhat better at facetanking. That’s important, as we’re not making use of the Tacticians insane damage output if we’re kiting around.[/spoiler]

Vitality Pyromancer: http://www.grimtools.com/calc/4VxxjpV5

[spoiler]This is dumb.

Offers a good chunk of OA (after Flashbang) and DA, and very high damage potential for a Vitality build. It’s enabled by some particular conversions, namely Chaos -> Vit across several items and Fire -> Vit to Firestrike via the Conduit of Destructive Whispers. It otherwise offers some fantastic survivability thanks to Blast Shield, Blood of Dreeg, and a significant 24% ADCTH (Grimtools is wrong).

A 20/10 Vulnerability helps us scale the damage onward and 19/12 Doom Bolt and Possession ensure that we have the opportunity to ram something into the ground if we need.[/spoiler]

Vitality…Witchblade!: http://www.grimtools.com/calc/nZoXD7kN

[spoiler]This is also dumb.

I so, so, so, so wanted this to be a Death Knight build. But it isn’t, because Death Knight gear sucks/is nonexistent, and Necromancer offers literally nothing of interest to Soldier. The Necro’s WPS are awful. So it’s a Witchblade.

Mythical Edge of Death is ridonculous and makes up for us not being able to get Cadence to 26/16 by turning Markovian’s Advantage into a ‘Cadence’ of its own. Using two of them exemplifies MA’s potency. Generally good gear support and fantastic skill synergy give this build a disgusting level of OA and acceptable speed values. Mythical Runeguard Greaves make us deceptively tanky to virtually everything in Malmouth proper.

Finally, Really Great Pants. `nuff said.[/spoiler]

The Affix-less Doom Bolter: http://www.grimtools.com/calc/mN4DWMmN

[spoiler]One of the things I’ve been working on is coming up with builds that, if they use MIs, can perform well enough without any affixes. That means that the build linked is always strictly a minimum and RNG can only make it better, not worse.

This is one such build.

With no affixes on its weapons, boots, or legs, you have plenty of room to grow. And what growth you’ll have! With a 22/12 Doom Bolt on a 0.87 second cooldown, you can spam out a colossal amount of damage very quickly. Capped resists and otherwise solid defenses make this a promising beginner build.

Energy usage will be a major concern.[/spoiler]

Can you explain the OA/DA reduction stacking stuff, I remember last time I checked only the biggest source counts :confused:

-OA stacks.

N Reduced Target’s OA only chooses the highest value.

It’s very similar to Resist Reduction.

The three OA reductions listed are all of the -OA variety.

Edited the reserved post with more builds.

Great thread thx guys! Love this community!

I have a few questions regarding the Octavius build.

Can you explain Conviction instead of Bulwark for the exclusive skill? I noticed that the Octavius gear has +3 Conviction, but wouldn’t Bulwark make more sense?

What is the gameplay like? Do you mainly wait for Forcewave to come off cooldown as your only attack?

Would I be better off just focusing skill points on Blitz or Cadence until I obtain some good Forcewave gear, or is FW also good without all the crazy + skills from the set?

Conviction offers more (much needed) OA as well as Physical Resist to help with Internal Trauma being reflected onto the build from Reflect mobs/heroes.

Yeah, pretty much. You’ll keep a good chunk of mobs permastunned and can otherwise keep up 100% uptime on your Internal Trauma.

Personally, I think FW can carry you through Elite difficulty on its own. It’s a fantastic leveling skill. Without gear support, though, it’ll be pretty weak in Ultimate, so if you have gear support for other skills but not the Octavius set, go that route instead.

Glad you were able to make something from the Octavius set. I tried my hand at it, thought I could tank any un-stunned mobs with high DA and got wasted in 2 seconds in Bastion of Chaos lol.

Only if you don’t find another suitable sources for reduction, though… that physical resistance sure is nice, however.

Is Boar really that much better in terms of Trauma than Bull?

Well, you clearly did something wrong, sorry.

Honestly? I don’t know. I just never freaking use Boar and wanted to work it into a build. I don’t even know what the proc looks like.

same as the siegebreaker shield proc, but instead of 3 lines it’s 1 line

Hahahah, nice. I’ll keep the Bull on my Octavius then. Maybe one day I’ll use the Boar… which is not today.

Honestly sounds meh.

Nice stuff, Ceno.

(WTB profile feature for GrimTools where one can save these builds for future access)

26/16 Summon Skeles is a bad idea. To maximize overall dps, you want to minimize the chance of spawning Mages, and Mages only have their spawn weight increase as you level it. Therefore, I believe that the optimal level to have Summon Skeles is at either 15, 16, or 17. Without doing any testing, I’ve arbitrarily settled on that middle.

My non-arbitrary testing just didn’t support this.

Player survivability is most important

I agree but think we view how to accomplish that differently. I do love seeing Ishtak being utilized though.

EDIT: Out of curiosity, what do you mean when you say “optimization”? I see some focus on bleeding and retaliation that doesn’t actually seem supported. Then there is the fire damage focus in the build via offhand and relic that has no apparent followup with more hellfire (and why wouldn’t you want skeleton mages if you were trying that angle?). When you talk about 200 more DA and better stun resists in regards to HC, what is your feeling on giving up defy death, almost 2k health, having uncapped vitality res, and not having an extra source of self/pet heal via relic without actually matching Skelemancer’s offense? Is Possession taken just for the damage absorb? Honest questions btw, I’m not picking for a fight. Just curious what your thought process is. How far has this build progressed?

There’s no intended focus on bleeding or retal or any other type of damage other than just damage for the sake of it. If it’s flat and can be put on pets, I considered it.

Possession is taken just for damage absorb, yes.

In my experience with HC (which, granted, is about 100 hours relative to ~1700 hours in SC) it’s more important to avoid ever getting low than it is to get low and have a means to handle that situation. So I don’t especially like Defy Death, as it is essentially just a worse Mercy in that regard that activates much later.

Vit Res has never been important to me. There’s no massive damage spikes of Vit that you can’t avoid; MQ is really all there is and the big Vit damage comes from her buffed autoattacks. Those are easy enough to not get hit by. This may change when the xpac enemies are added to Crucible, though.

After passing 12k health, I would value 200 DA much more than 2k more health.

Medic’s Mark is nice but I feel like for what it does it’s essentially just a mini-potion on a potion’s cooldown.

I’ve been considering taking 1 point in Mark of Torment, but can’t get over the fact that I just fundamentally hate the skill. :stuck_out_tongue:

I’m really digging that witchblade build, thanks for sharing Ceno. :wink:

I wonder if it’s as powerful in-game as it looks on paper.

I’ve been considering taking 1 point in Mark of Torment, but can’t get over the fact that I just fundamentally hate the skill.

I certainly wouldn’t argue with that sentiment but it is rather useful in at least a few fights and has no better alternative I know of for a 1 point investment.

There’s no intended focus on bleeding or retal or any other type of damage other than just damage for the sake of it. If it’s flat and can be put on pets, I considered it.

Eh. I just disagree with this. Your opinion on Raise Skeleton being lowered to 17 cuts skeleton flat damage in half for ALL of them for a statistical chance at maybe one less skeleton mage spawn per summoning (based on DaShiv’s chart), and that is after the recent skeleton flat damage patch. That and I think you undervalue mages. I’ve found them incredibly useful in gameplay when it comes to their attacking dynamic. My opinion of them changed drastically from testing for DPS and actually playing.

Medic’s Mark is nice but I feel like for what it does it’s essentially just a mini-potion on a potion’s cooldown.

Entirely valid BUT it’s an ADDITIONAL potion for you and your even squishier skeletons that you don’t have to do anything other than what you already do to have up every 3 seconds. I know it’s a rather dinky medal choice for this build but I didn’t choose it on accident. It’s incredibly useful all around though admittedly, maybe less useful for a summoner cabalist who wasn’t utilizing Hungering Void. I’d urge you to test and compare this in actual gameplay before writing it off.

Possession is taken just for damage absorb, yes.

In my experience with HC (which, granted, is about 100 hours relative to ~1700 hours in SC) it’s more important to avoid ever getting low than it is to get low and have a means to handle that situation. So I don’t especially like Defy Death, as it is essentially just a worse Mercy in that regard that activates much later.

Vit Res has never been important to me. There’s no massive damage spikes of Vit that you can’t avoid; MQ is really all there is and the big Vit damage comes from her buffed autoattacks. Those are easy enough to not get hit by. This may change when the xpac enemies are added to Crucible, though.

After passing 12k health, I would value 200 DA much more than 2k more health.

You have about 100 more hours of HC experience than me, so I’ll certainly consider your viewpoints here with respect. :slight_smile:

I do think Defy Death is a little more useful taken in context with the rest of what it is attached to on the item, but I certainly can’t fault your offhand choice given your relic choice (though I still wonder about your aversion to skeleton mages with those choices). DA and stun never presented issues to me in SC other than the occasional Hungering Void interruptions towards the end of xpac content but that was so easy to solve adjusting playstyle I feel like my opinion on it is your opinion on vitality resistance. Speaking of that though… How about Ravager?

I’ve been tinkering with some insanely gear dependent builds that I’d love to try out sometime in the future, should I be lucky enough to find the items I’d need.

Poison Pox/Vines Conjurer: http://www.grimtools.com/calc/lNkBWYlZ

Lightning skeles/ravens Cabalist: http://www.grimtools.com/calc/mN4D8vrN

DW Acid BH Reaper: http://www.grimtools.com/calc/m23XQ7EV

Summoner BH Deathknight: http://www.grimtools.com/calc/lNkBW0lZ

Diviner Spellbinder: http://www.grimtools.com/calc/O2GWGrL2

Lord of Loot, bless me with thy favour.

That’s the sort of thing I’ll never try in HC outside of a 4 man group. :smiley:

I was thinking about making the opposite of your Octavius build, basically converting all of forcewave into elemental using Arcanor, Blade of the Luminari.
My only issue is that there doesn’t seem to be good gear that supports the playstyle.

Also leveling a Chaos Ignaffar currently and same issue, apart from a couple items like Hellscourge, there isn’t a lot of support for Occultist/Inquisitor Fire+Chaos Ignaffar, which is surprising for something that’s literally a transmuter whereas cold Ignaffar has an entire set dedicated to it. I end up having to use a Blood Orb instead which at least lets me go full chaos while giving me good +skills.

Also, what do you think would be the better devotion setup? Ignore the rest of the build, it’s outdated.

First variant would be Tree of life + Behemoth
http://www.grimtools.com/calc/L2JLMMaZ

Behemoth + Scale of Ulcama
http://www.grimtools.com/calc/eVLJ55wN

Playing Hardcore, currently level 70 and I went Scale or Tree of Life on top of Behemoth since I’m literally eating shit from all sides and draining energy like a madman.