Things you should know when playing were form

Many people post bug reports about were form skills issues, and there is no comprehensive testing conducted. I will provide you a summary covering all mastery skills in wereform. Don’t ask me why skills are designed this way, I can’t answer, only devs can answer this question.

Firstly, the most important point is that werewolf and wereraven use independent animations that are independent of the weapons used in human form. That is to say, whether you use 2-hand weapon, 1-hand weapon or dual-wield, werewolf and wereraven animations are not affected, only a few exceptions. For example, Ring of Steel always hit twice/hit with both hands no matter what weapon you are using, and Forcewave always use your off-hand/left hand to attack no matter what weapon you are using.

Second, for skills using right hand/main hand weapon, you will normally deal main hand weapon damage. main hand weapon damage = damage of main hand weapon itself + global damage in all situations.
For skills using left hand/off hand weapon, you will deal off-hand weapon damage. When dual-wielding or holding a shield, nothing special about it. off-hand weapon damage = damage of off-hand weapon or shield itself + global damage.
But when using 2-hand weapon or off-hand focus, things are different. off-hand weapon damage = global damage

Then here’s the table.

Note: Movement skills are special. Blitz and Shadow Strike hit with both hand when dual-wielding or holding a shield, but hit with only main hand/right hand when using 2-hand weapon or off-hand focus. Vire’s Might and Rip and Tear are different again. They only hit once but their weapon damage counts both hand in, i.e., weapon damage = damage of main hand weapon itself + damage of off-hand weapon or shield itself + global damage.
Channel skills works fine, just like in human form.


Update:

  • v1.3.0.8, werewolf Arc Blade and Reaping Arc are changed to right hand damage.
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That would explain the Wereform-Forcewave issue that I ran into. I’m having a hard time imagining why there are so many differences among skills using the same form. I would guess that there’s some internal logic that governs all of this, otherwise I would expect that skills using 2H weapons would just do their damage regardless of the animation.

Ah well. At least I have the information needed to adjust some of my theorycrafting. Thanks for this!

mi0, when you denote 2h/offhand relations, does that mean we run into similar circumstances like with PRM/DEE and certain attacks or spells “in X form” wont reference the 2h weapon dmg at all, but then will in other? - or does 2h weap get proper referenced in all situations regardless :thinking:

*either way this seems like kinda a mess and should likely be polished out for consistency between forms atleast, even if it wont ever be human animation/hand related :sweat_smile:

edit, ok quick test on my 0.3 version, shows blade arc not benefitting from weapon augment, ie not actually referencing 2h weapon dmg in wolf form, but forcewave does - this seems outright bad and horrible and needs fixing if that’s the case, not just for consistency, but like actual application :woozy_face:

It works like this because werewolf/wereraven only has a single animation set, and weapon hits are set in those. So any skill works the same regardless of your weapons. 70/30 skills are like that because they can roll two 35% chance animations that deliver a right hand hit, and a 30% animation that delivers a left hand hit. Human animation set has a set of animations for all the weapons for this reason.
Either Crate forgot how to make animation sets or this is an engine limitation. I suppose anyone can make a makeshift, universal solution by changing the hit data to something more fitting.

I edited LeftHandHit to RightHandHit on Blade Arc animation, and it uses right weapon now. Vitality damage comes from the vitality scepter.
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@Zantai can this be done/“fixed” for every skill with the issue, both the ones outright suffering on application like Blade Arc, but also just for consistency so you don’t suddenly get dmg variables with the same skill just using a different wereform than another? :thinking:

yes, all hits using left hand/off hand won’t reference the 2h weapon damage. In this case, off-hand weapon damage = global damage.

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ye that’s what i confirmed with my Blade arc test,
but it’s not as simple as that
Forcewave still uses wd on 2h, ABB still uses 2h wd on all 3 hit states
because the animation does not equate to hit state across skills.
So it’s different on dual wield/ofhaand and 2h still :sweat_smile:

Forcewave just changed a few hours ago. See the new changelog.
I haven’t had a chance to confirm the situation of other skills yet.

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i’m on v1.3.0.3 not latest fix versions
point is it’s not animation related, ie wolf can swipe with left hand and reference right hand WD because the hithand is set differently as you can see per Dreamhaze’s screenshot
Which isn’t me saying the issue isn’t there; it complicates it further and need to reference the hit names specifically regardless of animation/skill names

example being Dream’s fix,
personally i’m okay with an animation disconnect, eg left hand animation striking but applying main hand dmg, but it needs to be implemented so all skills applies appropriate dmg and not actually off hand or 0 dmg in the case of certain 2h where it’s clearly MH skill, ie referencing “righthandhit” :sweat_smile:
/“this has to be a bug” or oversight - it cannot be intended werewolf with blade arc does 0 weapon dmg even on a 2hander :woozy_face: - even if we keep the lefthand animation

I know. Forcewave used right hand/main hand in early versions, turned to left hand/off hand sometime. I don’t know the exact time.But my test notes show the initial test results were right hand/main hand. When I retested before posting this topic, I found it was changed to left hand/off hand.

Indeed. The animation has no impact. The key is the hit frame set. Animation use left hand, hit frame is set to right hand, the latter/hit frame takes effect. Like ABB in wereraven form, 3 animations use different hand, but hit frames are all set to right hand. However, werewolf form is not the case.
I don’t want to explain these details too much, as it will make the already difficult to understand post even more difficult. Especially since my native language is not English, I am not sure if I can accurately express my meaning. Therefore, I omitted the program details that were difficult to understand and explained them as animations.

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nono apologies if it sounded like i was trying to put it on you,
more like trying to yell additionally in concert with “all the bug reports constantly posted” these sheet variations has to be deemed an oversight even if not a bug, because it has bad ramifications then, if not outright detrimental in some cases.
Animation disconnect is fine/we can toss that up to fun variations, but dmg impacts then has to be fixed still for handhit references.
So it has to be considered oversight if not outright bug and taken seriously/“they can’t keep dismissing it”, - can’t be working as intended you lose a ton of dmg, and it then varies from wereform to wereform on top to be even more confusing :woozy_face:
(eg they should just set righthandhit reference on all skills as baseline to start with and work from there :sweat_smile:)

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Were wereforms put into the game to make Cadence look simple?

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Well, Cadence is simple, it’s just every third hit, nothing to worry about

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Would you happen to know if wereform Eye of Reckoning has any weird shenanigans, or do they behave normally?