that’s a full endgame geared character, you don’t need that to beat MC nemesis, remotely
you do however need something with a little more “oomph” on most builds than just random greens and epics to beat Mogdrogen (tho some casters could probably still cheese him)
posting what’s essentially a top top build doesn’t really help with the comparison that Mogdrogen = Main Campaign Nemesis difficulty, when that build could easily clear SR 65 now and atleast 75 before desolator nerf (both shards which are much much tougher than avg MC nemesis)
YOu are right, this is end-game build (with messed-up devotions as need to drop Behemoth and Eel to get Rhowan’s Crown + Viper). Build still clears 75-75 SR safely without problems even after nerf. In my opinion end-game content should be attempted with end-game builds only, otherwise you will get frustrated.
i get that, but that wasn’t the comparison
you said Mogdrogen, basegame Celestial, was as difficult as Main Campaign Nemesis
which is different from SR 65/75 enemies or SR Nemesis, and ofc much different from Ravager
that’s been the point i’ve been trying to address
you can kill MC Nemesis without endgame items, and you can do so rather easily because campaign nemesis are pretty easy, and while Mogdrogen is the easiest of the Celestials, he’s by no means as easy as campaign Nemesis
Probably you are right, Mogdrogen was like Callagdra before AoM/FG, power creep went a long way since then.
1 Like
well, Calla/Crate are probably top-1/2 of most difficult superbosses (followed by Garbager maybe)
then some Shattered )or normal) Theodin, Garbagol, Korvaak in sr75 and higher
and then Grava. But Grava, honestly, feels like an ultraboss for 98% of fire and lightning builds and he solely prevents a large amount of fire/li builds to be good and competitive, as he has literally all most disgusting abilities against AA builds: huge DR, fumble/impaired aim pools that follow the player, disruption, auto-aiming null and some melee slaps on top of that.
and this is a “regular” boss that you will fight one way or another, while supers are actually optional as their drop is very meh.
then maybe IM and Fabius as they can beat the shit out of your char even if you’re a very tanky one.
4 Likes
I have the same experience.
Nemesis in MC are generally mild annoyances at worse.
Mogdrogen is a benchmark. Not the highest, but certainly up there in the top 5
2 Likes
Maybe Chilltusks are killing you if you find Mogdrogen harder than Lokarr, they deal some Cold damage and you should overcap against it as well 
For my 2 Beginner builds Lokarr felt more dangerous. For example with DEE I had to kite Lokarr constantly whereas Mogdrogen was pretty chill.
On Crate vs Callagadra - I change my mind and put 
on top. But it may depend on your build, perhaps Lokarr vs Mogdrogen too.
1 Like
there should be a pool and let people choose which foe is hardest from hard.
1 Like
I didn’t attempt it often, but I have never died to Lokarr…
While I only beat Mogdrogen once, despite trying with 3-4 different characters
I guess there is much less visual pollution fighting Lokarr, and I tend to start mashing buttons frantically when I don’t know what’s happening (Also part of the reason I do so poorly in crucible) . That would be much more of a me-problem though.
I also tend to do better (in general) with skater builds, and builds with high mobility, which might be advantageous when fighting Lokarr, but not as much with Mog…
Again, just my personal experience, but this is what this thread is about: if most people here think Lokarr is harder to beat than Mog, I’ll happily switch them around.
3 Likes
I’m not sure how I would go about it, except by making multiple polls “which foe is the toughest ?”
Then selecting a winner, then redoing the poll with all leftover choices…
Unless I can make a weighted poll, where each position grants points…
1 Like
ah yes didn’t think of this trough… maybe make multiple pools for each enemy spectrum powerful foe till log or smth…
will be a lot of pools but I think devs can give it a pass, why not?
EDIT: alrite here is mah list:
-Any special SR enemy above shard 80
-Crate
-Calla
-Rav/Mog
-Lokarr
-Clones
-Morgoneth
-Mad Queen bug
-Gargabol
-Grava/Kaisan/Kuba/Fabius
-Korvaak
1 Like
I think it’s much better to have people post their list here, so we can spot trends. There might be disagreement on the minutia, but that can be sorted out organically.
I already changed the list 7 or 8 times so far, and some names dropped out, some were mentioned often enough that they were added… If I go back to most comments so far, the list seem to make sense right now for a broad swath of the readers.
I thought Kaisan would be at the top of Nemesis, but it was mentioned only once (besides me) so it went down… a lot of people mentioned Fabius and IM, so I moved them up…
At some point we’ll reach a sort of equilibrium.
1 Like
For nemesies I would have put Reaper as the hardest one then probably Kaisan then Grava (especially for melee).
Also for me the mogdrogen is usually much harder than Lokarr.
3 Likes
reaper is considered a baby ravager… not fully grown. 
4 Likes
Lol that’s me as well.
2 Likes
Is reaper a really high chaos resistant nem? Cause I know you like your chaos builds.
Kansan is a bitch on pierce builds especially.
1 Like
Reaper resists Aether mostly
But you need massive overcaps to escape its -RR
1 Like
Reaper resists both Chaos and Aether, so Foehammer is correct. As for overcaps, that’s not really accurate either. Reaper and his wraiths inflict a lot of RR, yes, but the majority of Reaper’s attack damage is physical. His Aether and Vit RR and stuff thus doesn’t matter that much. But since he can apply between 32 and 40 flat all RR and his ancient wraiths another -24% phys RR, you can get splatted by his phys damage, especially if you let the wraiths hit you with their aura.
The reason I don’t see Reaper as that big of an issue compared to IM or Fabius is that he doesn’t attack fast, so you have time to heal in between the hits you take, and he doesn’t have like a Blitz, Shadow Strike or Forcewave attack that threatens to nuke you through phys damage. As long as you avoid the Wraith auras you’re mostly fine.
3 Likes
Thanks for the precision 
Yes reaper have high chaos res and I tend to play meme builds with no native chaos rr so that could be the cause
2 Likes