Right now monsters get like 90% more effective hp (vs. their singleplayer values) per player in normal, 53% in elite, and 18% in ultimate. It’s strange frankly. I really regret not putting my title to “un-nerfed in ultimate difficulty” because that was always my intention.
I’m also fine with crucible being untouched if that’s what crucible players want since many average players find crucible pretty hard and while multiplayer speeds it up, it doesn’t actually speed up soooo dramatically over what people can achieve in singleplayer.
Seriously? People are scared that it would be weird? I recall when AoM was released ppl screamed how hard it was and then it was nerfed back.
Then ppl starting whining(like i do now) how easy it got and want it to revert it back. Jesus
The game really needs the extra push on MP games. In normal i have more fun these days with the extra HP and the challenge it has.
When im going on Ulti i just slash through with no issues unless i use Doom’s mod Hell which fixes a lot of these issues and adds challenging tactics on some bosses so far.
I came to the conclusion that to enjoy the expansion i will use the lvl merit and start on Ultimate along with his mod and Lokkar set i gathered.
The fact that the game is a single player doesn’t mean anything
Lmao what why did they do it like that in the first place?? Really strange indeed. Streamlining it across all difficulties to ~55%HP seems even more reasonable now.
95% for normal, 55% for veteran and above would be better. I played with Toast once while leveling, we didn’t even have to stop if we have 1-1 maxed summon each (A single player with Raven and Lightning Strike lets you practically run through even the +98% ehp enemies. Having a mortar trap/totementalist makes bosses melt as well.)
Keep in mind that normal is supposed to be the “casuals only” mode. While it was also used by veterans to speedlvl instead of veteran, my guess is that most people will use elite to speedlvl alts from FG on. Thus normal will be restricted to casual/newbie mode only. So I think nerfing HP to 55-60% on normal seems fine for casuals.
@Maya, yeah 75% is probably too geared toward my sick tastes. 50% is a fair number and how it used to effectively be I think, and given allllll the buffs players have received, which are effectively multiplied in multiplayer, 50% seems good.
I never meant to imply the scaling for normal should be reduced. I actually agree the 95% or so is fine because normal is already so easy/fast already.
I want to be transparent here because I did some maths wrong I think.
The values you get in ultimate multiplayer for monster health are:
+580%/+800%/1000%/1120%. (for single/duo/trio/quad players)
That means a 100 health monster would have:
680 health in singleplayer ultimate,
900 health in duo player,
1100 health in triple player,
1220 health in quad player
680 + 33% = 900 = 33% more health for the additional person
680 + 62% = 1100, divided over the 2 additional players = 31% more health per person.
680 + 76.5% = 1200, divided by the 3 additional players = 25.5% more health per person.
So aside from me having my numbers wrong and being a bit embarrassed, I still stand by 50% being better. I also think it’s weird that the effective health increase per person is weirdly lower for the third player and significantly lower for the fourth player. The benefit of all this is that the extent of a buff I’m asking for looks much smaller in comparison to what it sounded like when I thought the increase was ~18% per player.
To achieve this in grim dawn numbers, in reference to my post above, it would look like this for ultimate bonuses:
Players 1 Ultimate : Monster health + 580% health (original, current vanilla value)
Players 2 Ultimate: Monster health + 920% health (old value +800%)
Players 3 Ultimate: Monster health + 1260% health (old value +1000%)
Players 4 Ultimate: Monster health + 1700% health (old value +1120%)
So this kind of change would actually be more apparent to bigger teams in terms of the difference it would make.
I remember how we (4 players in coop) beat Ravager in 2 minutes and Moggy in 1,5 minutes without preparations, without build that are made special for superbosses.
Same for crucible, ~4 minutes to 150-170 with extra spawn in parallel with the running discord and chatting inside
It should be done wise, but it needed. I remember old days in Diablo 2 when we play with friends in MP. It was not easy, but interesting challenge and fun.
+1 for the challenge but un-nerfing monster health on Ultimate may have some downsides for farming effectivity
The current health scaling makes Nemesis Hunts super effective. This means on a 4-player server each player looks for a Nemesis monster on their own, for example someone looks for Fabius in Four Hills while someone else looks for Kuba in Gloomwald, and so on.
Usually players only team up once a Nemesis is found, and sometimes that’s not even necessary because if your build can kill a Nemesis in SP, the current health buff just means the Nemesis will live a few seconds longer in MP if you decide to kill it on your own.
With the changes adoomgod suggested, it might actually be necessary to team up for real. And if not, how about buffing monster resistances, for example +25% to all resistances per player?
Well you might say “what about the newbies and players that don’t have good builds?” We are talking about Ultimate difficulty here. It’s called Ultimate for a reason, there is not going to be a 4th difficulty (and that’s great, one thing I didn’t like about D3 for example is the 15 or 20 difficulties that are all a joke). It should be considerably harder than Normal/Veteran and Elite, and not easier. Players who feel that Ultimate is too hard in MP or just want to “relax” as someone pointed out should play Elite instead.
adding health is always the least interesting way to buff difficulty.
Multiplayer should be like Grimarillion and add more spawns. Double/triple the bosses and quadrupple the champions. And double their damage out put at least
Proper monster health scaling per player is not going to happen without new tech. All health modifiers are additive (ex. Crucible scaling), which means scaling up baseline monster health with difficulty actually makes the other modifiers relatively less significant.
I’ve told you this before, so I’m not sure why you insist on continuing this crusade.
Adding enemies comes with a performance cost. We do it to a degree already, but the more enemies are spawned, the more pressure is put on the CPU. It’s fine for mods to do so as nobody can complain about massive FPS losses in a mod, but the base game doesn’t have such leeway.
For fun. I wasn’t looking for proper health scaling per player either. Just a boost on the numbers in the multiplayer scaling.dbr for ultimate.
Also this time around I wanted to see how the community felt about it. I was surprised by how many people really didn’t want it touched at all and were fine with how easy it gets in 4 player.
