Unable To Play With Non-Expansion Players Feedback

[medea_fleecestealer]

Because it makes it easier to find than searching the forum for them all the time.

"There are no plans for closed servers.

Not financially viable for a primarily singleplayer game, especially not for one that doesn’t rely on microtransactions to make profits.

Alas, you vastly overestimate how many players actually care about multiplayer in ARPGs, roughly 10% of the audience. It’s like saying Skyrim needs secure servers cause it’s 2017. As for safe gaming…I don’t know about your room, but when I play games singleplayer in my office, it feels pretty safe.

When you buy a copy of Grim Dawn, you could play it 2 hours or 1000 hours, from a business perspective it makes very little difference to us. If we had closed servers, now the player who plays for 1000 hours is considerably more expensive for us, and will continue to be for as long as they play.

At that point, introducing microtransactions seems like a no-brainer to off-set those costs.

I think we’ll be sticking to our (already successful) plans."

Any news about implementing closed servers??

There are no plans for closed servers. Not financially viable for a primarily singleplayer game, especially not for one that doesn’t rely on microtransactions to make profits. Alas, you vastly overestimate how many players actually care about multiplayer in ARPGs, roughly 10% of the audience. It’s like saying Skyrim needs secure servers cause it’s 2017. As for safe gaming…I don’t know about your room, but when I play games singleplayer in my office, it feels pretty safe. When you buy a copy o…

25th May 2018 stream:

u said last time u wont make dedicated servers could u tell why would make game much better for everybody ?
bring dedicated server could improve the game and bring a ton of new players in… joining a game with 350+ ping no fun zentai plz make it happen
Yes. I haven’t heard that one before. As the question comes up all the time I will answer it one more time on stream. Dedicated servers would be a cool feature. I think if we were to have it, it would have to have happened when the game was new, when we could actually garner attention for the game and get people excited for the fact there are dedicated servers, there are seasons and all these hardcore multiplayer features. Instead we focused on a single player experience, that is ultimately what Grim Dawn is about and we’re sticking to that, it’s working well for us. I think dedicated servers would be great, they will not happen for this game. Maybe Grim Dawn 2.

Forthcoming Forgotten Gods expac - what we know so far Part I

A LOT for you to wade through this time. I think I’m going to ban Zantai from doing streams himself - he talks too much! [spoiler]New music track from Skewsound to start off. Today as promised, I’m actually going to show you some of the movement skills we’ve been teasing. They’re a work in progress as with all things we show you during developement, they are subject to change, numbers can and will change. These are only the basic levels of the skills, there are more powerful versions …

5th October 2018 stream:

FiskeJR :Are there any plans for “closed online servers” like in D2?
Zantai_GD :no, that is something that would have needed to happen when the game was new

Then there are 2 other ones that eisprinzessin has linked in his compilation of dev feedback FAQ thread.

Closed servers - why and how

There is really no need to bring this topic up again when there have been numerous threads on the subject, many with replies from us. We are aware that some players wish for the game to have closed servers, and in a perfect world that would be the case. It has always comes down to the initial cost of retrofitting the entire engine to support it, future maintenance costs of such a service and (which is frequently not considered by players) the cost of opportunity (aka the time we spend on this …

Now that the expansion is out - which skills will be nerfed first?

The backend changes are the new renderer that is now out. We are not planning any sort of always online components. The game is primarily singleplayer. A closed multiplayer setup would require fundamental changes to the game engine, not to mention server costs, customer service, upkeep, etc. It’s a monumental task, and one that would have had to happen early on, not when the game is years old.

There are probably more, but I think they make the point.

[Zantai]

Make new character checkboxes for "base / base+AoM / base+AoM+FG. Then make the option available for that character to move onto the rest of the game at a later date if the player so chooses. For example, have a warning pop up for The Emissary’s portal when you click on it that basically says something like "WARNING: This portal leads to Forgotten Gods. Once you travel this character will no longer be restricted to base content (or base content + AoM).

Such an approach is far beyond what I would call a trivial implementation. I mean…if it really was trivial to implement, why do you suppose we haven’t done it already? To spite players?

I assure you that it’s a bit more work than a few “trigger” words.

A quick laundry list for you of just a few issues that need to be addressed to even begin implementing your trivial solution:

• how is expansion loot handled?
• how are expansion masteries handled?
• how do you handle restricting access to expansion areas when players can literally teleport to each other?
• how do you handle expansion only features such as illusionists or even expanded shared stash?
• how do you handle quest bestowal in MP when quest progress/bestowal is server wide?
• how do you reconcile items with updated/changed stats in expansions that also drop in the base game?

It’s easy to say add a checkbox, until one actually considers what that checkbox means.

Ah yes, the measure of e-peen and back and forth arguments that has become the staple of GD’s community

How else would you recognize a matured online community!

I’d still say it’s not as bad here as some other gaming communities, but perhaps I’m biased.

Eh, an example is right there in the OP, good old D2.

And yes, I read Z’s response to it as well.

Hence why I said “could have”, but that decision should have came early in development rather than pretty much near finish.

It’s been a century, so I can’t remember anymore, but didn’t you need to start new characters to play LoD?

Based on my gaming experience, I’d say that D2’s approach to letting players start D2/LoD characters was not exactly a standard for games with expansions. Of course anyone that played D2 without LoD was promptly chased out by the community for daring to play the incomplete game, so did they really even need it!

Didnt they say something like MP was almost an afterthought?

Pretty certain nobody at Crate has ever called MP an afterthought, and the years of addressing MP issues would say otherwise. We literally hired one of the programmers that worked on TQ’s MP to get Grim Dawn’s up and running.

Sure, there are MP features that players have asked for, but as with all feature requests, we weigh the time required relative to how many players it actually benefits, and I’d argue that the features we added over the years had a greater return for the community.

[Maya]

Pretty certain nobody at Crate has ever called MP an afterthought, and the years of addressing MP issues would say otherwise. We literally hired one of the programmers that worked on TQ’s MP to get Grim Dawn’s up and running.

I was paraphrasing based on the posts Medea linked above.

Instead we focused on a single player experience, that is ultimately what Grim Dawn is about and we’re sticking to that, it’s working well for us.

Zantai_GD :no, that is something that would have needed to happen when the game was new

It has always comes down to the initial cost of retrofitting the entire engine to support it

The game is primarily singleplayer. A closed multiplayer setup would require fundamental changes to the game engine, not to mention server costs, customer service, upkeep, etc. It’s a monumental task, and one that would have had to happen early on, not when the game is years old.

Etc

[EmuLegs]

as somebody who paid for this game 2 days ago and immediately wanted to buy some DLC, how on earth is this a problem?

All i want to do is join my friend who has the base game.

A quick laundry list for you of just a few issues that need to be addressed to even begin implementing your trivial solution:

• how is expansion loot handled?
• how are expansion masteries handled?
• how do you handle restricting access to expansion areas when players can literally teleport to each other?
• how do you handle expansion only features such as illusionists or even expanded shared stash?
• how do you handle quest bestowal in MP when quest progress/bestowal is server wide?
• how do you reconcile items with updated/changed stats in expansions that also drop in the base game?

Mark a new toon as “base” and allow ONLY base game assets, skills, masteries use the base game map no “expansion areas”

• how do you handle expansion only features such as illusionists or even expanded shared stash?

Remove them. if i’m playing with my friend who has the base game, just let me play base game, no
“expansion only features” no expanded shared stash none of it, JUST the base game for that toon.

if you have any other problems figuring out whats base game let me know, i’d be happy to help.

[Evil_Baka]

I mean, what you’re suggesting essentially boils down to “disable the expansions”. Which you can do, there are Steam launch parameters to do this and even a community-made tool that automates the process:

Play with friends although not everybody has the expansion(s)

If some of you only have the base game, then the others can disable the expansion(s) via the launch options. Likewise if everybody has Ashes of Malmouth, but only some Forgotten Gods. Steam users To only play with the base game, add /nogdx1 to your launch options Or /nogdx2, if you want to play only with the first expansion Separate multiple options with a space [grafik] GOG users In GOG Galaxy go to Grim Dawn > More > Settings > Add command line arguments and enter / select the required l…

[TOOL] GD Switcher v1.2

GD Switcher Download Read and download currently from my post here below. What It Does Lets you easily set and change launch options and fire the game up Enable/disable expansions to more easily play with your friends More in-depth features are being worked on (saves/stash/mods management and other related tasks) How To Use It’s a self-contained .exe file, no installation needed Download and place it wherever you like (I prefer pinning it to the Windows taskbar personally) Fire it up…

[EmuLegs]

your right, that is what it boils down to, however people have been having problems with that, remember you can’t just ‘disable’ them as it should be, you need to uninstall and redownload them, that’s the problem (EDIT) the tools linked above seem to fix this aspect of the problem.

it’s cool that allzome humans made some cool tools to cover the problems the devs made, i like that

doesn’t seem to solve all the problems for example:
“If you only disabled Forgotten Gods and later load a dedicated Ashes-of-Malmouth char into Forgotten Gods, then you can only use this char in Forgotten Gods from that point.”

and
“More in-depth features are being worked on (saves/stash/mods management and other related tasks)”

stuff that should be part of the game, its like saying anybody who buys the Loyalist Item Pack must play with other Loyalist Item Pack owners, its dumb.

[Evil_Baka]

doesn’t seem to solve all the problems for example: “If you only disabled Forgotten Gods and later load a dedicated Ashes-of-Malmouth char into Forgotten Gods, then you can only use this char in Forgotten Gods from that point.”

Then just don’t load a character into the expansion content, simple, it just makes sense not to do that . How would the base game handle characters that may or may not have data from the expansions? Just wipe it completely? You wouldn’t be pleased if your expansion characters just suddenly lost half their equipment and devotions when you go to play with your friends in the base game.

its like saying anybody who buys the Loyalist Item Pack must play with other Loyalist Item Pack owners, its dumb.

Except the Loyalist Packs and Expansions are wildly different in what content they add and how much of it they add to the game. The comparison is absurd.

[mamba]

Mark a new toon as “base” and allow ONLY base game assets, skills, masteries use the base game map no “expansion areas”

clearly you are missing the entire point. The problem is the complexity involved in implementing that, not in deciding this

[EmuLegs]

clearly not.

A quick laundry list for you of just a few issues that need to be addressed to even begin implementing your trivial solution:

• how is expansion loot handled?
• how are expansion masteries handled?
• how do you handle restricting access to expansion areas when players can literally teleport to each other?
• how do you handle expansion only features such as illusionists or even expanded shared stash?
• how do you handle quest bestowal in MP when quest progress/bestowal is server wide?
• how do you reconcile items with updated/changed stats in expansions that also drop in the base game?

[mamba]

clearly not.

clearly still missing the point even after it was pointed out to you

[EmuLegs]

ill say, you can’t even see that laundry list of issues that needed to be addressed o.O

[Evil_Baka]

If you think any or all of those questions are easy to answer and implement without issues cropping up, I don’t know what to say to you. Often, if a task looks simple or easy to accomplish on the surface, it isn’t always as simple as it would seem.

[EmuLegs]

without issues cropping up

there will always be issues with whatever is or isn’t done.
but this is clearly a high quality game, with high quality devs.

for example right now there is issues with how its currently implemented

Then just don’t load a character into the expansion content, simple

OH ok just dont hit the “delete stuff you want” button placed in the main menu?

[Evil_Baka]

but this is clearly a high quality game, with high quality devs.

Sure, but they are also a small studio with less resources than your standard AAA company. They could with enough time make improvements to the multiplayer I suppose but they have to weigh up if that time and effort investment is worth it or whether they would rather dedicate that time and effort to other ventures that maintain their success and life as a company.

OH ok just dont hit the “delete stuff you want” button placed in the main menu?

If you have a character that you’re co-oping through the base game with a friend, don’t load into it at all when you’re playing in your own time in the expansions. If you’re really paranoid about somehow screwing it up, then feel free to make regular backups. If even after that you still have problems, then that starts to be on you frankly. There are plenty of fail-safes and ways around the problem.

[EmuLegs]

they have to weigh up if that time and effort investment is worth it

There is only one reason i’m not spending an extra 51 of my dollarydoos on the 3 expansion packs.
that reason is because of the BS around playing with my friends and i’m clearly not the only person with this problem.

If you’re really paranoid about somehow screwing it up, then feel free to make regular backups.

your right that would bandaid the problem, but that kinda loop jumping shouldn’t be a thing.
I don’t normally buy games so i can move the files around to make it work

They could with enough time make improvements to the multiplayer

i don’t think this should be considered a multiplayer problem, because as far as i can tell its a single player problem, what if i wanted to play a toon from GD and one from an expansion at the same time to compaire the old and the new, this problem would still be a problem, it isn’t MP limited its just seen the most in MP

[mamba]

ill say, you can’t even see that laundry list of issues that needed to be addressed o.O

I absolutely see that list, even referred to it (did you miss that ?), but your simple ‘NO’ answer so understates the complexity of that list, which is what I was pointing out…

[Evil_Baka]

your right that would bandaid the problem, but that kinda loop jumping shouldn’t be a thing.
I don’t normally buy games so i can move the files around to make it work

You might want to become accustomed to it as many other games involve mucking around with files whether it’s for modding purposes or other reasons. And really ask yourself, is it that much of a hassle to copy a folder to your desktop every so often? That’s all making a backup is.

There is only one reason i’m not spending an extra 51 of my dollarydoos on the 3 expansion packs.
that reason is because of the BS around playing with my friends and i’m clearly not the only person with this problem.

Suit yourself, I can see that I’m not going to convince you so I’m not going to go any further as this discussion is going in a circle .

[mamba]

There is only one reason i’m not spending an extra 51 of my dollarydoos on the 3 expansion packs.
that reason is because of the BS around playing with my friends and i’m clearly not the only person with this problem.

there are two expansion packs, and not getting them is your loss, Crate will sleep well either way

As mentioned, disable the xpacks, that basically is the NO switch you were looking for

[Sleeping_Sun]

because as far as i can tell its a single player problem, what if i wanted to play a toon from GD and one from an expansion at the same time to compaire the old and the new

Nitpicking… What if I want an ice cream, served not in spherical shape, but triangle, spiral or mobius strip? That is the problem of all ice cream shops.

[EmuLegs]

there are two expansion packs, and not getting them is your loss, Crate will sleep well either way

As mentioned, disable the xpacks, that basically is the NO switch you were looking for

yea my bad, i was including the dlc Crucible in that “expansions i want to buy” list.
does the disable xpacks command just disable the required files or delete them?