When’s the next Loyalist Items Pack?
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Got it, full aggro upon loading into area in standard 4 boss clusterfuck, I guess skill will only take you to about 70 then?
I mean, we gotta fix “exploits” after all, since suiciding bosses is apparently skill now.
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Have you done classless HC level 100 challenge? 
Just because SR 120 was possible before, just means that what will be assumed “high” now will be lower. The shard number is just arbitrarily what matter is if you can do the highest possible shard in that “era”.
But my concern is and has was that high SR is not avaiable for all build types, clearly only hit and run casters or insane tanky retal builds can do them. High SR is not for me a good endgame system because some builds are waaay to prefered there
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have any of you ever considered that people do play high SR because they consider it fun?
as Alkamos have said, it makes you learn every boss moveset and inner cooldowns. It’s like DS but arpg.
and what he’s trying to say, is that melee builds are most likely will get destroyed by 2x1 regardless of how good they are, whereas casters/retal won’t care much.
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Some builds are able to pull all bosses at sr100 and kill them. It would be just another shot into diversity and for few players who like high sr because of 1vs1. For farming it does not matter, a lot of builds in 75-76 can pull all bosses, just go from corner to corner and kill them.
It’s just another method that still exists for players who do not want to use camera thing. Just boss room takes more time because of loading screens.
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Now you’ll have to learn every boss moveset AND the interactions between those movesets, isn’t that even MOAR interesting ?
i already know the taste of alex’s meteor while sitting in ben’s cage.
doesn’t help me deal with it on non-arcanists at the slightest.
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In example 95 shard if you can only facetank 1 boss at once with meele archetype in 1vs2 situations you still have to go from corner to corner and hit faster one then disengage, skill sets matter less. In as example again in sr105 you won’t do 1vs2 but in 1vs1 you have to know skill sets very well so fights are interesting.
Arcanist casters can just throw all their kiting dots and again - run from corner to corner.
My point is not that sr number is going to look worse. My point is that it’s going to kill diversity and interesting 1vs1. Deleting camera and leaving 1-1-1-1 bosses with slighty decreased vision would be absolutely okay
I agree with this.
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I’d love this. The way I see it, there were three main camps with regards to SR aggro. One group wants camera abuse to be there forever. The second wants camera abuse out but normal aggro abuse stays so you can still 1v1 all bosses at high shards. The third wants all of it basically gone and just go full aggro on all bosses.
The upcoming changes are somewhere in the middle of those. Of course you’re gonna piss off people with it 
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The issue here isn’t really that some builds can get through the 2 boss phase easier than others. It’s that two entire archetypes of builds will get through it easily. I imagine even outside of spellbinders and sorcs, the less powerful arcanists (like warlock) will still have an easier time dealing with the two boss phase compared to most melees.
Which is why I prefer full aggro, even if it means lowering our standards on what high SR would be to maybe 75? Mirror casters are not guaranteed to survive 4 bosses even with mark + mirror on unless you roll easy spawns. And retal… Well I’m sure you guys have something for it after that wave of retal builds recently. There will still be methods to easily clear 90 like having it already unlocked by waystone and just fishing for double zantarin spawns but we can just outlaw those guys who do that
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Some casters and reta builds always done more(and easily) than other build types in end-game. This always have been this way; solving this isn’t about aggro or anything else; you can only solve this by adding some special skills to the enemies that can hurt those playstyles. I don’t know what or how but that’s the only way or easier method ofc nerfing them though that’s not gonna solve the issue just make those builds miserable if the balancing will slightly more than needed. I always play melee, so I know even the best build can’t do the things any sorc can.
However devs never wanted that every build type achieve same results under same circumstances. So some casters, pet builds and retaliation will always have the advantage againts AA builds(range or melee)
No offense intended here but:
/sarcasmbuttonon
Here is a wild idea…like build your character to survive the 1v2…I know groundbreaking idea right.
/sarcasmbuttonoff
It’s a good middle ground and much more then I thought would’ve changed anyways. I figured camera use was here to stay…even if I or the others I know never used it.
I mean you can still run around and aggro the whole room /shrug…And 3 pulls vs. 4…yeah /boggle.
The melee issue aside, there will just need to be a change from relying on smashing your face against the 2 bosses and relying on high front damage and adcth to carry. Maybe it will force other options to sustain which, I’m sorry to say, contradicts arguments for less build diversity.
Which brings the point that the patch didn’t even hit yet and the nay saying begins.
So until there is Hard data on THIS patch after it hits…arguments are moot. And even then it’s up to individual preference.
AND
No one here, minus Crate, knows what bosses are paired with what. So what if they balanced it…makes the argument(s) here look awfully dumb.
I say let Crate continue to do the awesome job they have, test 1.9 and then give some constructive feedback and if your case is valid I back any suggestion for change EVEN if it screws me.
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Read carefully what was written above, I had to explain few times that it’s not about not being able to kill 2 bosses or going down 5 shards but about 1vs1 and fight mechanics. Diversity too.
Builders already are doing it to pass high shards.
I bet the only balance is going to be like Gargaban can’t spawn in pair with Kaisan or something like that.
I know how 1vs2 or 1vs4 looks like, I don’t need to be forced to play it because already I’ve played it multiple times. It’s going to hit diversity and fun from hard 1vs1 fights very hard. And I will repeat - if your character on certain shard is able to fight 2 or 4 bosses at once then 1vs1 will not be very hard and will not be fun.
Amazing to me that a community needs a disclaimer warning about fixing a major gameplay-breaking bug. When Grim Dawn 2 comes out, I hope for the same level of love this game has gotten so far, without whatever actions allowed the community to become so spoiled.
The camera abuse exploit is one of the dumbest things I’ve ever seen in a ARPG (rivaling some D3 quirks) and it’s the only thing that’s allowing people to take shit-tier builds meant to be played with crucible buffs into high SR. Endgame builds with 10%~ stun resist is one of the most shameful things I’ve seen in this game.
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As long as you keep mentioning “diversity” in reference to build in shards 60+ you’re never going to convince Zantai of anything.
You might want to find a new catch phrase.
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I know and I have no idea why I am even trying. 60-75 shards are considered “unbalanced and anything goes” and people beat it with beginners builds, pulling all bosses.
Everything seems based on scores of only few people. For “casual” fanbase it will not change anything, for farming it will change absolutely nothing. Only interesting 1vs1 gameplay and diversity of builds able to play it is going to be hurted.
And I repeat again, camera thing can be gone, even should, but doing always 2 bosses instantly rush is stupid idea.
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Honestly, I doubt it. The build community has proven extremely creative at every turn no matter what changes Zantai has put out there. I think you’re vastly underestimating your fellow players and overestimating Zantai’s proposed changes.
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Okay, I am off. I explained it multiple times, no reason to do that again.
Idea is aimed basically into last few people playing high sr (which is out of balance or not finally?). Making even all bosses bumrush at start, correcting or not current AI exploits, taking off camera glitch or not, it does change nothing in farming shards range.
No sir. It’s going to hit your definitions and the small group of individuals that are like mind. The vast majority of players will barely notice.
Change is scary…but this is one of those good changes. Let the patch hit. And if you didn’t read it, if I’m wrong then change it for the better of the game even if it negatively impacts me.
As far as I’m concerned your arguments are good but without solid proof in game, they need to be proven beyond conjecture.
Best of luck 
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