Upheaval, Doom bolt, EoR, radii

Grim Dawn Ideas and Feedback
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TL;DR Upheaval is one of the forgotten procs of this game for a good reason. Here’s 3 examples:

Aether Upheaval Druid with Veilkeeper set:

Lightning Upheaval Druid with Veilkeeper set:

Custom lightning Upheaval Druid with omega OA:

Pay close attention at 5:00 in the SR run for this one. Please do something about these ridiculous healers, same for the goblins, Burntheart and whatever other healers there are.

Conclusion:
Not even stacking unrealistic amounts of crit damage and OA can help this skill, so you can imagine that the concept of a realistic decent build is even further away.

Regarding Doom bolt the worst part of it is the fact that its a projectile and it misses a lot of hits. There are several cases when the target that you directly hit doesn’t get hit but some dude nearby gets hit or cases like the direct target isnt hit, some dude at the edge of the radius isnt hit, and some other dude in between those 2 gets hit. It is the most frustrating thing especially on a build like Harbinger that has high cd to Doom bolt and tiny aoe.

Regarding most skills that have meter radius/meter target area, please consider making this radius scalable, more skill points invested = more radius.

EoR is probably the skill that suffers the most from the lack of radius. In the current meta, melees are kinda doomed because of the cc and debuff storm coming at them, at the same time channelers’s survivability is highly dependant of them… well… channeling, mix these 2 together and you have EoR, a rangeless channeling skill with very low potential to leech due to its wd%, also its range that its fixed, and ofc the incoming debuffs.

Having a look at all these skills and introducing a scalable radius would do wonders.

EDIT

In addition to the already mentioned stuff, i wanted to remind one of the older issues regarding Reap Spirit and TSS. The fix for these 2 is pretty straight forward and easy, more precisely, Reap spirit needs blast radius on its cast (even better if scalable radius like mentioned earlier), TSS needs its numbers bumped, electrocute added to 3rd node and the chance to deal x lightning damage to be reworked into an always happening damage instance, because aside from the fact that the damage on it is bad, the lotery makes it even worse between having or not having damage.

9 Likes
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no idea how long this PTR is, but i wonder if we could try a 35% passthrough mod to upheaval, then see from there, and or perhaps a +1 target with arc for melee
(unsure if upheaval direct can get extra targets without it being busted to a DAR?)
*I know the general perception is the crit requirement+wps cancellation is the core issue, personally i’m okay with trying to work around that concept instead of changing to to regular effect.

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Yes , Upheaval needs serious rework it’s too conditional for Arpg and even if you covered all the checks is still far behind

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Passthrough and multi-target autos are both very interesting cases for this skill that I’ve unsuccesfully tried to make work. I’d absolutely love it if they were supported.

The fact that it works as an alternative to WPS procs enables (2h) melee shaman builds for classes for which that would otherwise be an unworkable idea, like arcanist, demolitionist and even inquisitor. Otherwise these class combinations would want to get 70% WPS proc chance from some other sensible source. Changing Upheaval into a regular WPS, which I’ve sometimes seen suggested, is just “more of the same” in that regard and the least compelling option. Bleed Upheaval is meanwhile fine in theory, and I’m looking forward to some of the spoiled FoA items for this (it’ll be either the first or second thing I play, depending on the options for chaos slapsticks for a mystic). Speaking of which, Troll Bonecrusher builds don’t really have a way to convert Upheaval to phys, which is meh.

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It was suggested to be reworked into a regular wps a lot over the years. What exactly is the problem for it to be just a regular WPS with its mechanics intact?

The fact that it conflicts with 2h wps pool is the most ridiculous and counterintuitive thing in the entire game probably.

I just don’t see “the vision” with this skill being this separate cute on crit proc. And never heard anything from the devs of what this vision is.

It was buffed a hundred times over the past years. It’s still bad. It doesn’t work. And I for the life of me don’t understand the insistence for it to work the way it is now.

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It doesn’t help elementalist/druid/vindicator/conjurer builds that use blazerush/veilkeeper/chaos conduit. These will lack options to fill the WPS pool and be inferior due to it. Archon/ritualist/warder on the other hand won’t be drastically different from their current state. For archon’s that have issues filling the WPS pool I’d rather see Shattering Smash be usable with a 2h, that’d be cool.

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Do you mean regular wps with static % to trigger or regular wps that would simply overwrite other wps on crit (which would be intuitive). Because I feel like there’s some miscommunication.

I think it’s implied that ‘making it just a regular wps’ means we’d lose its current on crit funcionality.

I’m all for making Upheaval as it currently is while also making it work along normal wps pool but not sure if that’s doable within game engine.

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That’s also the implication I take from that phrasing. If it kept the mechanic of it triggering on crit then it wouldn’t behave at all like a regular WPS in terms of proc probability. (I think people would still avoid it for that reason.)

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I don’t follow. Currently you can’t use other wps, because they block upheaval. Upheaval only triggers on crit. So it’s only inferior if your crit chance is higher than the wps chance would be for upheaval if it was a normal wps. You don’t need to fill your wps pool, being able to add any other wps without screwing over upheaval already makes it better imho.

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you can’t have your cake and eat it too
it’s either chance on attack or chance on crit,
think of it like assigning Assassin’s Mark to a wps instead of DAR; you’re not getting fun proc interaction there
So that means changing it from crit to chance when used(regular wps), which would then be bad for non wps classes(only has 1-2 wps now), while not benefitting multi wps classes much because Z would no doubt nerf the scaling to compensate for the more frequent proc and intermixed dmg gains from high combined dmg pool (multiple wps/100% vs just 1)

*also something something mechanical limitations/template stuff

my whole view is that generic wps isn’t exciting, and just fixing stuff by turning it into the same homogenous oatmeal isn’t really a great solution for fun/variety, even if it’s benefitial to meta performance. Effects, pizzazz etc workarounds would be the type of changes i’d like to be possible sorta “fix”/bandaid (or just change the PTH scale exclusively for Upheaval template :grin:)

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Sure it’s bad for proccing devo’s. But it’s better for actually proccing upheaval :stuck_out_tongue:

Edit: Not saying it’s the best solution, but the way it currently works is not much fun imho. I tried leveling it recently (on ultimate) and even though I tried to get my OA up as much as possible, the crit chance was only ~10% max on trash. So it basically never procs. I was hoping it’d get better when I get to the end game, but apparently not much :stuck_out_tongue:

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the interaction is the same/“multiplicatively bad” as it’s now chance on chance

*i think the misunderstanding stems from thinking changing it to wps means upheaval can proc “on” other wps crits, which wouldn’t be the case, since 2wps can’t trigger at the same time or enhance eachother like that

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Very much agree with post, Upheaval and EoR for sure needs rework, a lot of builds and items just wasted by this skills being in very bad shape
Doom Bolt tho just needs to stop being projectile xd

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Not sure what you’re talking about.
Currently upheaval itself only triggers on crit. Devo’s trigger as if it’s a attack replacer.

If it’s changed into a regular wps upheaval itself will trigger as any other wps. Devo’s will trigger indeed chance upon chance, just as any other wps (which I think is also bad tbh).

No, I know it can’t, which is part of why it’s such a awkward skill imho.

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i wasn’t talking about devo proccing, but using the multiplicative proc interaction example of what would happen if you changed it to a crit based wps “you still end up dealing with chance on chance” - unless you change it to regular chance on attack, = upheaval gets nerfed to smithereens

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In FoA, maybe it could be turned into a big-bonk skill intended to be used with Onslaught. That would keep the 2H fantasy of “every third attack is effing massive”.

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as i recall it was said wps/procs couldn’t use Onslaught because of cooldown interaction/manual activation? requirement :thinking:

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Yes. My understanding is that Onslaught stacks only effect energy-spending attacks with CD. I’m imagining it being completely replaced, not just reworked.

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19

THIS!!! /10char

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2handed shield incoming :grin: