Using Savagery with WPS procs?

If I have 4 WPS skills, with total chance to proc = 100%, how would that interact with Savagery? Or would it not work? How about Cadence, out of interest?

Secondly, how do WPS chances interact with Upheaval (which has 100% chance to proc on crit)? Is Upheaval completely different, and thus not a WPS at all (because it triggers in relation to a crit that has already happened)?

Many thanks

Savagery works in your favor with WPS and applies its bonuses to all default attacks including WPS procs, so you’ll want 100% WPS for huge damage.

Upheaval has a separate proc chance from other WPS in that it activates on crits on non-WPS default attacks and so 100% WPS chance means 0% upheaval chance.

Cadence works different in the third hit is a special Cadence hit and not a default attack. WPS that hit with both weapons will count as two default attacks to charge up Cadence faster. Since 2 out of 3 hits are default attacks, at 100% WPS you’ll have 67% WPS and 33% Cadence hits.

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So would this mean in the Cadence case, having WPS at 100% is a waste and I would be better setting my WPS to 67% in the first place, by either reducing the proc chances or just taking only the best WPS skills?

You’ll still want 100% WPS so you do WPS on 100% of those 67% default hits; if you had 67% WPS then your spread would look like 44% WPS 23% default attacks 33% Cadence procs which still ain’t bad and loses a little damage.

Most WPS come with nice procs attached too so it don’t hurt to pump them

Even better. So taking WPS skills is always good, regardless of whether I use Cadence or Savagery.

I assume if my total WPS chance exceeds 100% then it is normalised down proportionately for each WPS skill? And I would never perform a basic attack? And further I assume that going over 100% WPS would be counter-productive as it would effectively reduce the chance of my “best” WPS proc’ing?

Finally, a related question… if I attach a Devotion proc to Cadence, can it only proc on the every 1/3 Cadence hit? So if it was 20% chance on attack, it would be 33% of 20%?

only case where it’s bad to take wps is on max Upheaval builds, tho they are largely dead now

yes and yes

“depends”, if all your wps are good, or you’re a pure AA+wps build where most of your dmg comes from scaling wps, going over isn’t necessarily bad since it still confers more dmg for the increased wps
what you generally don’t want, is cases where you’re mixing great wps with “lesser” wps, and then go (a lot) over 100% reducing your procs of your favoured wps
belgo blademaster as ex easily goes over 100% wps, but it’s ok, because you’re maxing your chosen WPS anyway for max dmg scaling at this point
a passthrough AA gunner might not want to have their passthrough wps reduced by including a filler wps like Markovian just to make sure you weren’t on “just” 95% combined pool, where markovian then takes you to 120%
various different scenarios
and also depends on your minmax nitpicking ofc

devos attached to cadence can trigger every attack, just like normal AA replacers, and yes that means if you attach a devo to a wps, even with cadence you can still get 2 devo procs on 1 attack
(not that attaching devos to wps is generally a great thing either way)

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with this exception (but Upheaval is special either way)

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Hmm. I just noticed that some of the WPS I could take are WORSE than my basic attack, at least at low levels. Seems throwing a single point into all of them (while staying below 100% overall) is not a good idea.

Which ones are worse? Off the top of my head, the ones with <100% weapon damage are Inquisitor’s Chilling Rounds and Storm Spread and Nightblade’s Amarasta’s Quick Cut. In the Inquisitor case, both shoot multiple projectiles and are good, while Quick Cut can be not so great depending on the build and your level of progress through the game.

dmg scaling isn’t actually what matters, most/all wps even with low WD should outscale default no wps attack rather quickly
when people refer to “bad”/lesser wps it’s their animation time or aoe potential they usually talk about
ex being amarasta’s quick cut is both a single target wps, and supposedly has a slower animation than other wps, making it worse at endgame than some other wps
*depending on your overall build and amount of wps ofc
Belgo’s shears is an aoe wps, but even at 18pts, and with belgo set, it’s animation was slower than Zolhan, making zolhan “non set boosted” more dps (and direct? dmg) than shears
then you have wps that is purely single target like markovian, which might not be as good as a wps with aoe, because clear speed added/lost, despite maybe having higher single target dmg, so either you use aoe mods or dmg mods to boost markovian to such a state where the difference is made up for
for gunner cadence builds you have the fact that volley wps like chill rounds double charges cadence, but shotgun wps like storm spread does not, making chill rounds types preferable when possible
likewise for gunners you will in general now favour passthrough wps over non passthrough, simply because more clear speed

again, these are generally/usually something for the top builders and mega minmaxing people, casual people likely wont tell much of a difference from these small things, well maybe the passthrough wps for gunners since it’s also noticeable visually,
but belgo shears being bad or not, or even AQC being bad or not, unmodified Markovian, Necrotic edge and so on, you probably wont bother noticing unless you’re recording or otherwise keeping track of your kill and clear speeds

Thanks for the replies guys, I appreciate your time.

Yeah I was looking at Chilling Rounds. Seemed worse since I do none of the flat damage types it adds and it’s only 55% at level 1. I guess it has utility though as you said.

Chilling Rounds has iirc 3 (single weapon) or 2 times two attacks/projectiles (dual wield) with the stated 55% (the lower %damage value can be an issue - e.g. for physical damage builds, but otherwise …)