V1.1.6.0 Itemization Discussion

I was looking at the 100% Physical->Acid mod to DEE as that seems like one of the most confusing additions to it following it’s buff.

As for Poison, what about the full set proc on Dreeg’s set for instance, or would you run Corruptian on DW alongside it or something. I feel like I’m missing something here as it doesn’t look that powerful compared to existing alternatives.

I think corruptian works best on the rotgheist sentinel as you’ll convert IT damage from presence of virtue

EDIT: @Evil_Baka I still think the base weapon damage should be acid like most other weapons just so it won’t be unnecessarily gimped when spamming something like biting blades or acid purge

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If Acid->Physical damage was more readily available or had more variety, I’d be ok with this as there is still the Physical RE aspect of it to consider (as wacky as it is).

The thing about phys RE is that each projectile is gimped by enemy armor. It’s a catch-22

Either you try and stack sufficient conversion + flat damage damage on each projectile, or you focus on getting much needed %phys damage.

In both scenarios, even if using a +5 to RE BoM, it is impossible to find enough skill points for you to 23/16 RE for that final projectile.

@shadowpast & co. may very well have cracked this puzzle. I would LOVE to see the GT if you guys are willing to share. Of course, you can always PM me should you wish to keep it private.


I’m not sure how rare the off-hand is, but I don’t think it’s too difficult to get the helm + belt


Oh yeah, I wasn’t thinking about the Acid/DEE aspect of the weapon since other weapons are outright better for that. I dunno, for that reason I think it’s better off if the DEE part was converted to Physical as well.
As for belt, the Deadly Means one tends to be important because it has a +3 to RE and other bonuses suitable for the build.

I think the small/fast hits of RE probably clashes with the armor, physical resist you have to get through so the damage output isn’t impressive as it is right now.

The WD% to RE sounds like a good suggestion as well.


It’s an inherent problem with Physical but it’s arguably better having the projectiles be full sized globs of damage than smaller bits of flat damage that are more likely to be absorbed.

Edit: Actually, since it’s damage converted from Vitality, would it be effected by armour? I vaguely remember someone mentioning recently that Grim Dawn’s coding is made so converted Physical doesn’t adhere to it. Found it: Worst EoR damage.

If Corruptian went from +2 to RE to +3 like @Weyu suggested way up, it’d be possible. Let me go dig an old meme out of my pile.

Using Targo’s helm just for the conversion irks me here because you’re not getting anything else useful out of it - the +1 to mastery bonuses are useless when you want as many as you can get to RE as it’s a naturally unsupported concept and the CDR can be gotten elsewhere. In any attempts I tried putting Physical RE together on a caster, I always went for Ravager’s Dreadgaze instead.

If forced to try and make phys RE work, I would personally run a DW targo with corruptian and use RE as supplemental damage for cadence.

BTW, might be worth one-pointing decay in your spec. IIRC, %damage bonus from the skill-line is applied prior to conversion

adding onto this, there are so many cool possibilities for poison casters in the game, especially if we look at this:

But every attempt on theorycrafting dies the moment it comes to itemization.
It would be a great idea to add a few +skill points to something like Venomlash for devastation or TSS (maybe with some transmuters and +acid damage) or just open a few more possibilities for spam DEE. Warlock would be just such an awesome class for poison casters, both visually and thematically!

Been told several times that physical damage, gained by conversion, does not pass armor.

actually i was thinking about a bloodknight ritualist with soul harvest+vit savagery, if you are going to change this item pls leave the vit savagery part in its place.


If you want to try vitality savagery, try this. It’s more of a hybrid, but it’s capable of sub 6 minutes crucible. It should perform better than Bloodrender.

drop legend is too big, add afixes and prefixes to legendary items

Word of Solael

Actually about to drop a build that uses Vitality Grenado, so played with this item quite a lot.

My feedback, item with such niche modes like Vitality Grenado should have +to all skills in that mastery, in this instance, to Demolitionist. Reason: it’s extremely hard to build Vitality Defiler as it is (can’t take Shieldbreaker because Path of the Three screws our Fire to Vitality conversion), and feeding skill points into such a skill points hungry skill as Grenado leaves us with no skill points for essential stuff like Blast Shield or Vindictive Flame or Ulzuin’s Chosen.

Suggestion: add +1 skills to Demolitionist.

I think it should be the rule for amulets/main-hands/off-hands that give gimmicky mods like this, they must have +1 to this mastery to make those gimmicky builds possible. Because there is really no itemization around Vitality Demolitionist except Blightlord set and Mark of Burning Shadows medal.


This would be a complete disaster because it would make a lot of legendaries flat out broken. And also make a lot of MIs pointless.

Barbaros pants with just decent affixes would be disgusting.

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Amarasta’s Blade Burst

Never use it on any Nightblades because its cast is a pointless waste of my investment into attack speed. Might possibly have some potential in a caster setup but as was mentioned earlier the cooldown is prohibitive.

For melee, why not simply have a transmuter (there’s physically enough space on the skills panel) that changes it from cast to attack?

“A significant core of Amarasta’s disciples, having embraced the teachings of other masters too, have learnt to hold the energies of Amarasta’s spell within the blade they wield. In their focused state, the flow of melee combat is uninterrupted, with the energies of Blade Burst being released intuitively with each successful strike, albeit at a much reduced level of damage.” Or something …

Without some additions to the category of automatic attack replacer, so many Nightblade builds are hemmed into Belgothian Strikes … Beronath Shard … or coupling up with Soldier or Shaman et al, for a skill like Cadence etc.

Whilst addressing attack replacers - there seems a dearth of support for vitality in this area. Seal of Blight might have been a candidate but instead we got Acid Purge which seems to be a poor man’s Dreeg’s Evil Eye. If it’s felt that this continues to offer a needed short range Albrecht’s Acid Ray-esque attack then please add a vitality counterpart to Beronath’s Shard - Tainted Shard maybe?

Electricity based 1 handed swords. Meh. I was so excited to jump through the hoops needed to get the Mythical Crystallum and yet it’s performance is poor. Nightblade is typically funnelled into cold support, and more so when paired with Arcanist and Inquisitor - it feels very one dimensional that dual wield savagery is obliged to build into Korba’s for yet more cold. Buff the Crystallum a bit or maybe give us the Mythical Thirsting Maw? Something, so we can diversify off from cold.

I’m on shakier ground here … but … my understanding is that the chaos conversion to Albrecht’s Aether Ray is a root change to the damage type, which then allows chaos to be converted to fire (as an example). If that’s correct, then please change the tooltip to reflect “change” and not “conversion” because the ‘double dipping conversion don’t work’ rule is propagating unneeded confusion.

Finally (and this really is just an ongoing ‘huh?’ kind of question) Breath of Belgothian. Essentially I get to use my heal ability less often in order to get a heightened state of health regeneration? It’s a bit niche … a bit too niche … and … it confers the ability to dual wield? That’s kind of like someone making a new pen and at the marketing meeting it was decided that the pen needed something more … some added extra which makes it stand out from the competition. “I know - give it Bluetooth!”
Meaningful would be giving Breath of Belgothian a duration so if you also need to pop a pot too that gets the “40% enhanced” benefit too.

What i’m getting from this is that you think ABB scales with cast speed. It scales with attack speed actually.

If it’s not what you meant, disregard this.

It’s the opposite. Breath of Belgothian lowers the cooldown of Pneumatic Burst.

Totally guilty of assumption on that one then - just took it as being a muter to offer a bonus with a penalty.

You don’t need a weapon replacer to inherently deal/be built for Vitality damage for it to be used on Vitality builds because of the % weapon damage on it.

For example, Acid/Poison Witch Hunters in the past have successfully used Beronath’s Fury because of the huge amount of Acid damage they can stack onto their weapon and put out through WPS like Execution, Whirling Death and Belgothian Shears on top of it.

Damage cannot be converted more than once is the rule. There is 1 exception to this being Storm Totem/Guardians of Empyrion due to their transmuters not being programmed as damage conversions.

Bleeding Items:

Every item that uses a slot which is/could be occupied by Bloodrager´s Set is obsolote (imho). I won´t break up Set Bonus for any of them. Only solution: Make them Level 84 items, so they can be used till Lvl 94 or Bloodrager drops.

1h-Melee Weapons:

  • Howl of the Wendigo: Is it Vitality or Bleeding? For Bleeding…well, no. Needs more Flat Bleeding Damage, different skill modifiers…or maybe it isn´t a Bleeding weapon at all.
  • Nightclaw: Flat Damage too low, strange skill modfiers (again: these skills will be hardcapped when playing with them)
  • Mythical Scion of Crimson Wakes: Looks good, but is outclassed by other weapons. EoR and Bleeding won´t be friends, Bonus to Fighting Form? DW Cadence Bleeding might be possible ( I doubt it because of lack of bonus to Cadence) if there were RR for e. g. Blademaster. But RR to Devouring Swarm which has already a good amount…wasted. Instead of EoR maybe Smite should get skill modifiers or, radical solution: Skip Oathkeeper and support Necromancer with Bonus e. g. to Bone Harvest.
  • Mythical Butcher of Burrwitch: Sorry for the hard words, but it got castrated: Low flat Bleeding Damage, no Attack Speed, supports only Shaman with skill modfiers…no alternative for Tricksters.


  • Mythical Sandreaver Bracers: On first look, they seem good…but they won´t get used very often (imho). I never saw a Forcewave Bleeding Build so the bonus to Internal Trauma is more than strange. Okay, Oathkeeper might be used in Bleeding Builds, so Presence of Virtue might be okay and Blood Boil for Necromancer is nice…but there are Gloves like Dark One´s Grasp, which gives a huge boost to any Bleeding Build which uses Wendigo Totem, Crimson Claws, which pushes 2H-builds with Shaman and Mythical Grasps of Unchained Might for Blade Arc Builds or Tricksters in need of RR. Solution might be to give a skill modfier to seldom used skill, like (again) Bone Harvest or RR to a Necromancer skill, or, or, or…


  • Mark of the Farseer: Yes I used it…on a Battlemage! Otherwise it is outperformed by anything else (Direwolf Crest, Mark of Consumption). Skill modifier on War Cry is nice, to Horn of Gandarr…well, no. Bonus to Storm Surge is strange (Primal Strike Bleeding? Yes, on my single mastery Shaman…otherwise…), the lack of OA really hard. Should be changed and (again): It should support classes like Occultist and/or Necromancer.

Both great, lack of alternatives.

Wrote everything about Ring of Orissia, others are fine (like “godly fine” for Belgothian´s and “fine” for Deathlord´s).

That´s all for the moment. :wink:


I appreciate the conceptual explanation for how you can piggy back vitality damage into Beronath’s Shard, but on a dual wield Reaper for example: A - you only get main hand damage not the benefit of both weapons (as seen in Shadow Strike as an example) and B - you’re still diluting your focus in vitality back into elemental, which is essentially a penalty other classes with bona fide replacers don’t face.

It’s still a gap in the skills market which would benefit from an insertion of something (I feel this sentence leaves me open to a rude rejoinder :wink: of some sort).