V1.1.9.1 Discussion

  • Components
  1. Replace flat armor on head slot components. It is utterly useless, 'cause unlike in belt/jewelry slots, such armor apply only to its piece, thus 18 armor on runestone is actually 18*0.15=2.7 effective armor. Which is nothing
  2. Diamond was gutted and now hardly of any use, mainly because 8/68 uptime with 50% health threshhold activation means that anything can trigger it, especially in SR. So i propose simply increasing its duration to 12 sec and lowering activation point to 25% health.
  3. Consecrated Wrappings - 3 flat chaos and whooping 8% (!) chaos damage is a joke. This component only gives 5% AS, that’s it.
  • Builds
  1. Fire Archon - https://www.grimtools.com/calc/w26oBgxV

Archon is a bad class. All it’s variety narrows to physical damage. There were some vitality/bleed hybrids that utilized WB, but we all know what happened to WB. So i’ve tried the one obvious concept - fire melee. And it’s horrible. There’s no itemization for fire shaman to begin with, then itemization for fire RF is also merely non-existant. Recent nerf to cyclone doesn’t help as well.

As for performance - i couldn’t pass the very first chunk of sr75 (well, happens, sr is extremely random). Crucible was something like 5.30 at the very best, but most of the time build was a corpse (i don’t remember the succes rate 'cause tested it in 1.1.8). You’re has to gain this lightning --> fire conversion, because otherwise, you have a) no flat damage; b) no aoe which is crucial for melee build.

  1. Fire BA Commando - https://www.grimtools.com/calc/a2E0na8N (stats ingame are: 200 %AS/CS, 2901 OA, 2801 DA)

It’s a bit better than archon, at least i was able to complete sr75-76. i’ve just tested it in CR - 5.46 with marked, casque and only one grava, so it should be ~6.20 on average (also should have changed diamond to bone, but forgot aboit it.). The build would be fine if it was also sturdy, but it’s not. It’s not even relatively safe to play, lifesteal can just disappear in a second (which also was an issue with arcon). having to throw BWC and fucking thermite mines (delete this skill, please) doesn’t help as well, despite capped %cs. And frankly, build has some really good flat damage on paper, which should be really good with BA and it’s 230% WD, but no. it doesn’t work. Absorp from soldier’s ult also almost unnoticable.

Both of these two has a lot in common - mainly being a 2H fire melee builds. And i believe there is where the problem is rooted. Fire is the second worst damage type for melee, both for DW and 2H. It has awful support, nearly no flat damage and garbage resistances (thanks for that +200 fire overcap, it’s really fucking useful). The only working fire melee that i’ve seen is double blazeheart sentinel by banana, and it converts it’s flat from vitality and chaos. Yikes.

And the cherry on top:

as you can see from GI, i was dealing exactly 0 fire damage. Single RR elemental builds are viable for sure.

7 Likes

That’s right , the new boss room already so hugh, before even 2 bosses will get lots of threaten, but now nothing. BTW Im HCer

out of curiosity, have you tried alladrah fire archon? - since i’m not exactly the greatest of builders my own initial attempt was kinda meh, archon 1h wps is a dud, and fire eor is… well obviously you want wind devil spam as much as possible to interrupt that EoR :unamused: - but i’m curious what the concept might have yielded in others/better hands :thinking:

or blazerush?

In this cause, the survival build value is reflect.

i haven’t, but DW should suffer from the very same problems that 2H has, so i doubt that it’s going to be any better.

@banana_peel did, but it was long ago, before cyclone and mines were nerfed. No idea of it’s state right now (and it was elementalist)

1 Like

which brings me to, and i know Z will just lean back in his chair smirking & scoffing each time it’s mentioned, but
… and until my dying breath:

  • please make wind devils perma pets !

^nr 1 arthritis inducing “element” in Cairn… :pensive:

Mythical Gauntlets of Ignaffar
Mythical Alazra’s Ruby

I think Zantai’s trying to tell you that your Archon needs more Fire Resistance.

This is not me meme’ing you, I’m helping bolster your argument about Fire equipment’s terribad resistances.

+1 on all accounts, especially buffing Consecrated Wrappings so that it’s similar to Restless Remains in having multiple good stats (Energy and ADCTH compared to 3 flat damage and insignificant % bonus) and helping Fire Shaman have more buffs so that Archon can stand out a bit.

5 Likes

My impression is Stun Jacks just need some weapon damage on it and flat damage reduced to compensate of course. This will solve sustain dilemma on every SJ build. I mean, Phantasmal Blades have built-in life leech and weapon damage. But hell if I know if it will break game balance or not.

Also agree on Consecrated Wrappings needing a slight buff. I dunno, either increase flat and % chaos to 5 and 30, or add like 10% chaos res on it.

2 Likes

i’m really curious how that would play out - specially since almost every +stun jacks modifier item doesn’t feature much flat global damage, and QJ has total dmg reduct. And +WD modifier on nado didn’t exactly make that absurd :thinking:

This isn’t actually all that necessary.

Taking an excerpt from the Chaos Jacks Pyro guide I wrote last last year:

Keep in mind the character fully converts Twin Fang’s Vitality to Chaos and gets above average flat damage for a caster because of Chaos having some of the best accessory augments around in Osyr’s Temper. It also has spare points for fully converted Sigil of Consumption on the end as well.

Defensively speaking, i don’t think I need to say much more than minimum 3k DA at all times, 44% physical resistance (which looking at it again could go down to 40% for more damage), Possession’s damage absorption and Blast Shield. Energy cost is no problem with Tree and even helps on survivability counteracting Dying God’s health cost.

Chaos Jacks in my eyes is more than fine on offense and defense.


@Ceno @afanasenkov26 Similarly, what would either of you two say to Cold/Lightning Stun Jacks then having more options for supporting procs being easier to ADCtH off of? Like if Piercing/Vitality->Lightning conversion was more abundant or easier to access to enable stronger heals on Twin Fangs in the exact same way I ADCtH with it on my Pyromancer above.

Or other places get ADCtH like the current Bane relic proc having ADCtH as an example (No one uses Vengeance for Cold so maybe giving it something would make it look nicer).

1 Like

I always saw converted fangs as a crutch that solves the symptom of a problem but doesn’t address the problem itself. I’d rather have converted fangs than no sustain, but I’d greatly prefer that these builds be given legitimate sustain options through skill mods or itemization.

4 Likes

To be fair, i could also argue that giving caster skills ADCtH like it’s free candy is also a problem in and of itself. Since vanilla, we’ve seen PRM, AAR and DEE all receive it in shape or form, all skills that previously were pure damage caster skills.

I can’t not think of a spammable/channelling skill that either doesn’t have some way of getting baked in ADCtH or weapon damage now - everything does it because it’s the only way to survive which again, can be construed as a core problem of the game that has been creeping into more skills over time.

1 Like

A valid argument.

Counterpoint: these skills all needed it, much like SJ does, which you touch on in your second paragraph.

2 Likes

At a certain point, I just feel like if everything has a stat and has to have it, it’s more prudent to remove it from everything and just make it a baseline/easily accessible which is what Twin Fangs essentially is :man_shrugging:. But I guess that can’t really be done for ADCtH now.

I have successfully commandeered this thread, haven’t I?

Not against it conceptually, but I don’t think it’s likely. New items are not soon going to happen (if ever) and with them new conversions or procs are going to be hard to place.

E: Neat chaos SJ build btw. @Evil_Baka, obviously there’s no reason why you wouldn’t use Sigil in that build, but for comparing it to other forms of SJ how do you think your build would perform, survivability-wise, without it?

1 Like

It’d be tighter all around for sure, especially with regards to getting CC’ed as the main form of interrupting Twin Fangs ADCtH. Not just on survivability but for AoE/crowd clear they are an integral source. I’d almost compare it to Storm Totem + Wendigo Totem in terms of role on a Stun Jacks Elementalist but vastly prefer what Sigil does and how it does it to the Totem duo.

17 posts were split to a new topic: Health Regen Defense Discussion

Revert mortar fire rate or increase burn dmg on big one.

2 Likes

:point_up: that one

1 Like

Mortar dont have autohit like storm totem