nothing nothing nothing
3 Likes
Working on fire RF pistols at the moment as Pally, having @romanN1 seeing if this completes crucible. I’ll delete myself if this is somehow 5 mins or less
Full stronghold set feels awful for RF, definitely go fire strike for that. Have tried 2x dagallon, dag with deviltongue, and now settled on dag + 2 piece stronghold that appears the “fastest”, although it’s struggling for damage. SR75 is doable although occasional deaths (I’m realizing this is a bit of a trend with pistols in general, I feel like I have to sell out full damage to keep up with other playstyle kill times but alas). 3 piece Justice set feels mandatory to scrap together any fire flat, meaning you either take gloves for RF mods, or helm for smite damage (or Gaze of Empyrean for aura and +1 all I spose), or I guess a defensive chest piece ala Fateweaver because you can’t really find big fire flat on chest with useful + skills. Getting cold or lightning conversion is troublesome so just focusing on fire WPS with some passthrough. Fwiw firestrike side has interesting options with either justice flat fire or chaos/lightning conversion individual gear, but RF just needs to try to convert all physical.
https://www.grimtools.com/calc/M2gPx4yV
Yeah there is fire strike sitting right over there wanting to be used with fire but my crusade for additional ranged options, especially with pistols, continues. This feels lackluster for a “standard” skill damage type, and the pistol options can’t carry it. Deviltongue proc is nice for survival but I don’t really feel the burn dot/damage. The rest of the fire bonused pistols carry chaos damage, so it was down to a second dagallon or 2 piece stronghold. Fire gear options seem too big to try to adjust at this point, so I spose my hope would be something to beef up fire RF on deviltongue
Dreeg DEE https://www.grimtools.com/calc/lV7O3y5V
I think spam DEE energy cost is a bit too high, maxed all node will result in 118 energy per cast, and I quickly losing energy during a fight in SR or campaign bossroom where there is only 1 or 2 enemy. Only with Viper and Arcane Spark currently it help with energy regen despite I already have 150+ energy regen. Perhaps reducing the energy on the first node by 5-10 and the rest by 5 will be a good QoL for the base skill.
Additionally, I think the Dreeg set should have +1000 Energy, spread within its item and set bonus. On the build I post above it only have 2k usable energy due to Sentinel small energy pool and big reserve skill.
I tested Kalis’Ka’s Harvest again with Warlord, physical/bleed this time and I presume this is what it’s made for.
Tried to have some physical damage aswell so I can leech, used Serenity to have another circuit breaker and reflected damage reduction(instead Oleron’s Wrath); made it more balanced. Stats looks great right? Lifesteal is still bad, you can only trust your circuit breakers and hit&run. No possible way you facetank and regain your life by hitting. Good part is you have high physical resistance.
I don’t know what it can be done, just wanted to give some feedback. It’s not my playstyle so I didn’t push it’s limits to see what it can do or can’t.
However I wanted to compare it with Targo Warlord(plus they said me toy with Judgment and VM); then made this,
Same problem. This build have more physical damage support but have less lifesteal. If I didn’t use Azrakaa it would have lack a lot of stats including health. Physical resist is very low for a shield build. It’s very good on farming mats etc(2 sec Judgment and VM) but not suitable for end-game; hardly kills Morgoneth.
So just my 2 cents about One-handed Blade Arc with two different examples. Both have more DoT damage than flat, so both can’t lifesteal at all, which makes it less desirable to spam one-hand BA. I did manage to survive with Vitality Warder version because that build had huge Counterstrike support, Rattosh devotion and Scales; these trauma and bleed ones have no such sustain sources to rely on.
Again I’m not sure what can be done to fix this issue but I’ll leave it here so maybe you can figure it out.
2 Likes
1h BA works fine with conversion i think, like ex Chaos BA
not saying that’s what it was made for, given their obvious native stats, but stacking the MI bonuses unto Chaos BA provides a neat noticeable boost,
and weird as it may be, at least for the weapons, it’s strangely an instance of where fudging the affixes isn’t actually necessary and native phys affixes do well/“best”
Since last day I got struck by Dreeg madness and tried to make Acid FoI paladin, I’d love to see actual acid FoI support. Maybe in form of standalone shoulders or belt
1 Like
wonders if Acid Purge is a thing
2 Likes
It is, but FoI is more meme xD
1 Like
Followup on fire ranged pally @romanN1 best run, 5:05
Told the average is closer to 5:30 range. Run had ideal resist mutators and no bad target spawns so seems to make sense. Wouldn’t complain about a small damage buff but doesn’t need a drastic overhaul
I have a pile of feedback, most of it is more of general observations so it won’t be accompanied by build links or videos because it’s related to my experience as a whole (mostly with melee builds).
In no particular order:
- Lightning, fire, elemental and bleeding melee is in a bad state.
- Lightning melee basically doesn’t exist outside of PS spam. There are several drawbacks to it which put it so far below other dmg types there is absolutely no reason to play it even in MC, unless you just like the word lightning.
First and foremost, a lot of flat and %flat sources have very high dispersion. It is thematic to lightning but should be compensated by leech access or abundance of dmg. But you have neither. In fact, lightning is the only dmg type that has no possibility to fully convert the “leeching” dmg type - vitality - to patch your weaknesses.
RR. Lightning is the only elemental dmg type without its own passive source of -%RR. Moreover, fire and cold have access to mods to increase -%RR by a lot. Lightning has none. ON TOP of that, lightning is the only elemental dmg type with %RR delay application from devos.
Lightning has very poor sources of flat and little to now access to flat conversion to increase melee dmg output and make it more stable.
All of the above combined with Grava make any attempt at strong 1H lightning melee futile. No dmg, no sustainm nothing. You have too many disadvantages to overcome. - Fire melee works a little better but mainly because it’s easier for fire to convert vitality and get access to PASSIVE leech. Hence every successful 1H fire melee in history features Blazeheart. You can go by with other weapons but it requires taking two blue rings and blue shoulders which handicaps you too much.
- Elemental melee has extremely poor itemization. Being tri-dmg type, you have to have access to superior % dmg, superior flat sources, superior devos. While the third is partly in place, first two are not. Here is the best ele DW i could come up with https://www.grimtools.com/calc/wV1OA0PN and to no surpise it doesn’t work at all.
Suggestions: increase flat sources for fire/lightning melee (and make them more consistent), add more ele flat conversions on melee focused items. Add -15% li. res to Nightblade’s conduit or replace lightning ABB (the single most bizarre conduit of all time) with -15% li res to VoS, +50 li flat to Pneumatic.
- Bleeding suffers in Crucible greatly. Aggro fix made it very hard to play dot builds with target switching. Before you could leave a boss bleeding out and move on. Now you cannot because it will chase you down and apply every bebuff it has. And hit you hard. And you have no way to leech (because you are bleed with low flat base and you are debuffed into oblivion).
- Grava is still head and shoulders above every boss in Crucible. Fumble duration reduction made almost nothing to him, he spawns new pools instantly anyway.
Aggro fix made it so you in 30-40% of boss combos you are fighting all of them at the same time wherever you go. Which is a good thing as a principle. But a lot of bosses in GD are VERY fast for some reason. To this day I haven’t seen any merit to Reaper or Kuba closing in on you off screen in 0.5 sec. Just why? Smart positioning does nothing to your performance against these enemies. So when you have Couple of fast heavy hitters accompanied with Grava, with his fumbles and constant high DR, it’s like you are playing completely different game. And not a fun one at all.
Suggestion: Greatly increase Grava’s DR ability cooldown, compensate with melee attack buffs. Reduce movement speed of lightning fast bosses, compensate with stat buffs.
- Glaring disbalance in ranged. There is Fire Strike, there is couple of pass through abusers and there is everything else down in the bottom.
Not an expert in the field and i feel like i don’t even know how half of ranged mechanics work but smth must be done here. Why would i play ranged RF, or Cadence, or 2H Savagery when i can take FS, hold left click and win? Projectile mayhem of FS that makes packs of bosses cease to exist in 2 seconds is probably the funniest abuse in the game.
Suggestion: Maybe look into decreasing projectile count, especially on FS, and buff the flat base and WPS %WD across the board? Like, i want to play as sharpshooter with strong shots for single target focus but i just can’t.
- Crucible became less fun.
Partly it’s the burnout but when you think about it… I like the game, the concept of this gamemode is appealing to me. But I get tired of Crucible so very fast. And it has nothing to do with speedrunning, I like all kinds of builds with active gameplay and consider a success any build that can reliably clear Crucible in ~5 mins and SR75-76 within the timer.
Even testing new builds in Crucible is tiresome for me and i can understand why the gamemode is not very popular. Dunno what resources Crate has to consider changes to DLC. I think there is still some potential to interest people in a purchase because the concept of the gamemode is simple and effective.
In any case, suggestions:
- Replace 170 (or add another wave) with a mini-version of Celestial boss fight, with a chance to drop the corresponding MI from the chest. This will strongly increase the incentive to buy the gamemode: you have a chance to get that sweet MI without switching your favourite build to some tanky retal cookie cutter and tedious pharma management
- Rework mutators or remove them from the gamemode altogether. They add nothing to Crucible, literally no merit, and go completely against the arena spirit of the mode. All mutators that affect monsters are kinda ok but player mutators are a bag of unfun. Alternatively, adjust all mutators that affect dmg output. A run with Shattered, negative RR, -speed and Unstoppable vs the same spawns with Marked, Swift and positive RR will net up to 1 minute difference even for the fastest builds.
- Add more variety to monster pools in higher waves. Even out the spawns. For instance, the difference between Blugrug and Packla at 157, Gargoyles and everything else at 157 is staggering. The difference between Temple Guardians (3 strong bosses) and Ilgorr (slow punching bag) is just absurd.
- Make more use of Tributes. Maybe special items at vendor for tribute cost? Maybe drop boosters for when you have a tanky build that wants to go in without buffs and banners?
10 Likes
It has been requested numerous times, I think adding more 10-20 waves to make Crucible fun and new again is necessary. It’s an option-challenge like deep SR to push power of builds to the edge, as common Crucible <170 still can end premature.
Crucible already has much better loot gain than the main game, i don’t think further stripping of the few incentives to go into the main campaign is a good thing.
Plus, given the scaling of Crucible, the Celestial would most likely be way stronger than its main campaign counterpart, making it stay biased to retal builds.
I think they made it to provide an extra cold>lightning conversion. Still can’t get %100 with Stormserpent belt, MI shoulder and that conduit though but I agree it is non-sense because I tried to make spam lightning ABB work, you just can’t get skill points and the damage together. And I’m not exactly sure why anyone tries to get that conversion with a nightblade(instead SS variant); to convert Nether Edge? No way you get proper vitality and chaos>lightning conversion even if you get pierce %100. Just for Execution? Doubt it. For Raging Tempest flat cold? no big deal. DoT from elemental awakening? Again not a crucial damage to convert. Maybe I can’t see it, somewhere some build can use that amulet for conversion maybe lightning blade spirits or something. But lightning ABB is not even meme so yeah I wouldn’t miss it if they replace it with a more useful variant.
Crucible, a DLC with a price tag, is currently pretty bad for loot farming compared to FREE Shattered Realm. SR doesn’t punish nearly as much for deaths, and even the farm rate in SR is higher.
What is even an incentive for a loot oriented legit player to buy Crucible? To torture themselves?
A chance of Celestial MI won’t break anything. Overall it will be much harder to farm it in Crucible than in campaign, on your terms and having the whole Cairn for kiting.
Shattered Realm isn’t free, lol. It’s part of FG, an expansion you have to buy on top of the base game AND AoM.
Because some people like survival horde mode? Plus, Crucible was a Kickstarter stretch goal, it was gonna be made regardless if the devs were gonna make it incentive for loot farming (in my opinion it should never have had loot in it in the first place).
Zantai went as far to remove certain boss items from the Crucible recently. I very much doubt he wants to start putting Celestial MIs in it.
To be fair this has gotten noticeably better over the last two patches with more non-FS builds pushing 5 or lower results with consistent 75-76 clears (rutnick pally or oppressor, deathdealer warlord [cadence!] or oppressor, vitality RF oppressor, and now the passthrough sandspitter pally or oppressor options off the top of my head) but overall could still use some love compared to throwing together almost any firestrike build. Smite on pistols, especially with damage mods, is so strong it can basically carry RF builds if there is a decent amount of flat, for better or worse. Savagery and primal strike ranged have world beaters with VoS but much more modest (PS) or not fun to play (savagery) without it imo.
Handful of additional buff requests in the ranged thread or elsewhere as I’m not expecting another baseline gun revamp after the additional of a bunch of physical conversion mods and hydra revamp in 1.1.9. If elemental cadence, fire RF, and some options for savagery land in 1.1.9.2, I’d personally be happy with the diversity. Top end fire strike is still going to be better than 95% of other builds with the green crossbow, dagallon, or insane flat damage darkblaze, but that ship has probably sailed. If you tone down FS now to match RF/Savagery/Cadence, then all of ranged is a tier lower than average melee or caster build which seem to trip over 4:30 SR75-76+ stable options these days. Could just be the design plan, as even with bumrushing mobs ranged can definitely still kite say grava where melee can’t, while in theory leeching better than non-weapon damage casters (that now basically don’t exist because everything has a leech option).
2 Likes
I was gonna answer to you but then i saw this
and i think we’ll just stop here to avoid cluttering the topic.
As a player who played a lot of SR, but was completely new to Crucible since a few weeks ago, I disagree with this sentiment. I really tried to learn Crucible, Tributes, the buffs, the turrets, but in the end I just ended up GDstashing the Tributes over and over again. IMO, Tributes and their bonuses should be completely removed and naked Crucible should just become the Meta. It should help with drawing in people who don’t want to learn alien, isolated mechanics in an otherwise heavily inter-connected game. I thought the community views Crucible as the best place to test builds. Tributes and randomness are hampering that build-testing ability.
6 Likes
Even though Reaping Strike ended up being a bit too good in its current iteration, I really like the impact it had and I think it would be great if some other relics received similar treatment. There is a number of relics which, on their own, do give decent bonuses and relevant +skills to their corresponding masteries, but their granted abilities are a bit of an aftertought.
Korvaak’s Deception is a good example of this. It has an active that is completely useless to casters. If I were use it on a fire/chaos caster, like a Pyro, I would be doing so knowing the granted skill will never be used. When I look at it from the perspective of an auto-attacker and compare it to Annihilation, at least on the pure fire side Annihilation seems way more appealing. It helps fix energy, if that’s a problem for the build, increases attack speed, gives flat attack damage, boosts spirit so that the character can potentially save some attribute points for more physique for melee survivability…and the proc ain’t too shabby either. If Blazing Eruption were a weaker WPS for fighters or a proc nuke that can benefit casters, I think the relic would be much more appealing. As a weaker WPS it would at least not require the brainspace to use the skill every 3 seconds for mediocre payoff (and a ton of energy that fighters may not be able to recover too easily).
Similar could be said for Scourge. Cold + Vit does not have a great abundance of spammable attacks. If Scourge Strike were to receive the Reaping Strike treatment, it would be a great boon to many Reapers I’m sure. Doomforce. I get it’s a big AoE ability but…it feels like it doesn’t do anything. For a skill that has a 4 second cooldown, it pales in comparison to just a decently supported zero-cooldown two-handed Forcewave. If it were a reactive “when struck” proc, at least it would be quietly doing some work in the background without taking up casting time from skills that end up doing way more work.
Aside from that, as I mentioned in the V1.1.9.1 Discussion plain vanilla fire/phys two-handed EoR could really use some love. Currently two-handed EoR is limited to a grand total of three of items, two of which go into wild conversions (chaos and vit) while the last one grants incomplete lightning-to-phys conversion and no fire conversion on what is meant to be a phys/bleeding build, and adds bleeding DoT to a skill that is meant to be doing its damage through super rapid application of flat damage. It would really just take one or two MIs or legendaries with good fire/phys support for two-handed EoR to open up a variety of possible builds, from Shieldbreakers and Templars to Warlords. Warlords can already kinda try two-handed EoR through Gutsmasher, but the addition of DoT doesn’t really do the build much good, while Shieldbreakers and Templars really have nothing going on on the two-handed EoR front. Lots of fire or fire+phys two-handed weapons, not one of them supports EoR in any meaningful way. Blazerush is about the closest it gets for Shieldbreakers and it’s hilariously weak compared to double Alladrah’s Spellblades. If the build were to try go the lightning route instead with Cindertouch it again fails to find any lightning weapon that supports EoR or Oathkeeper (Alvarick’s Rebuke is about as good as it gets and that lacks attack speed). Templars can maybe try Aether EoR with Temporal Arcblade and the Aether conduit, but finding items with Aether + EoR support outside the weapon, Soulare’s Helm and amulet is a fruitless endeavour. They do get full conversion at least, something two-handed fire or phys EoR Shieldbreakers could only dream of, but they pay for it by having to choose between EoR skill bonuses or aether damage on most of their slots.
Also, after recently starting to play the game multiplayer, I noticed some discrepancies in mobility skill behaviour. In many instances, my character with a leap skill was capable to jump through walls, pillars etc., where my ally’s teleport skill stopped dead on the same obstacle. One would expect that to be the other way around, or at least for both skills to have the same movement capability.
Lastly, I would again like to mention the audio for Theodin Marcell’s taunt voicelines being way too low compared to someone like Warden Krieg (Fleshweaver is also a bit on the mumbly side) or Korvaak. It would make for a much more atmospheric boss fight if Theodin wasn’t essentially talking to himself the whole time 
2 Likes
We’re talking about a very small fraction who can even beat normal, a smaller fraction of that who can beat Ultimate, a smaller fraction who can even beat Crucible 170 at all, and an even smaller fraction who have computer set-ups where sub-5 Crucible is even possible. I don’t know why 5 minutes suddenly became this hardpoint, as many of my characters can do consistent SR75-76 with the timer but my laptop Crucible times are in the 7-8 minute range. How many minutes did @Superfluff shave off by getting a non-potato set-up? That’s where the real pay-to-win factor comes into play.
Where every other game goes procedurally generated random everything, I’m super happy Crate decided to do a Crucible mode with hand-picked enemies. Yes, I wish Waves 159 and 169 had more consistent enemies to balance out the FG ones being stronger than the base game. Yes, I hate the combo of Korvaak + Dravis at Wave 169 cause that means Korvaak’s death animation will surely last through Wave 170. Maybe we can work out some smart enemy comboes so that Wave 159 and others have 3-4 possible options and they’re all equally difficult instead of some being super easy and others being a mess.
But a Celestial at Wave 170+? Making naked the norm where you’re getting 30K DPS incoming damage at the same time? NO!
1 Like