V1.1.9.8 Discussion

[banana_peel]

Unfortunately my laptop is in a bad state right now and doesnt handle long sessions to recod multiple 20min runs. And I’m not that into GD right now just to try and fix the issues for your request. You can browse my and lee’s channels, there are multiple builds with sub6 runs and Ravager kills. I don’t think they will be as fast on avg as your Octavius. But some of them will be more stable and easier to pilot in SR.

@anon94264551

BTW please shut down your GI.

First time heard about it. Apparently there is a checknox in GI for wider range pickup. You can uncheck it. I can’t play without GI though, my laptop lags even more in vanilla.

@anon94264551

Why would we hit a generally used rune to target a specific case?

The runes are generally very strong compared to a lot of mastery skills. Stormtitan has level of dmg comparable to full Blitz line, and it has lower cd. Very strong for a granted skill.

I wouldn’t want these skills to be nerfed much but the one thing you can do to them is reduce huge dot they have. They give too much of a dmg gain for a lot of builds as a part of the dot stacking rotation, and it’s not just phys. Fire shield builds use Blazing Charge to great extent.

[banana_peel]

What mad_lee said about his recent tests:

"Here are few builds that I have min-maxed recently that have similiar SR timers, but better Ravager timers (most of them) and much much better Crucible timers. Also almost all of them are, in my opinion, more consistent than Chains of Anguish Octavius specs (this belt is just trouble). Note that I don’t really fish for a fast SR 75-76 run, I might reset really bad mutators, but I am not really good with map layouts and not a fast SR pilot in general, so those times can be definitely improved. You can find more builds like that on my or banana_peel’s channel.

Cold melee Dervish Dervish, Level 100 (GD 1.1.9.7) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator
SR 75-76 6:22 run (no short rooms) Cold melee Dervish vs. SR 75-76 (6:22 run, no short rooms/tough bosses) - YouTube
Ravager 54 seconds kill Cold melee Dervish vs. Ravager 54 seconds kill (OA augments in jewelry) - YouTube
Ravager no pharma/no cluster 1:11 kill Pierce melee Dervish vs. Ravager 1:11 kill (no pharma/no cluster) - YouTube

Cold Nex & Ortus Sabouter Saboteur, Level 100 (GD 1.1.9.7) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator
SR 75-76 5:58 run Nex & Ortus Sabouter vs. SR 75-76 (5:58 run) - YouTube
Ravager 58 seconds kill Nex & Ortus Sabouter vs. Ravager 58 seconds kill - YouTube
Ravager no pharma/no cluster 1:12 kill Nex & Ortus Sabouter vs. Ravager 1:12 kill (no pharma/no clusters) - YouTube

Fire snb Shieldbreaker Shieldbreaker, Level 100 (GD 1.1.9.7) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator
SR 75-76 5:45 run Fire snb Shieldbreaker vs. SR 75-76 (5:45 run) - YouTube
Ravager 50 seconds kill Fire snb Shieldbreaker vs. Ravager (50 seconds kill) - YouTube
Ravager no pharma/no cluster 56 seconds kill Fire snb Shieldbreaker vs. Ravager (56 seconds kill, no pharma/no cluster) - YouTube

Vitality dw gunner Oppressor Oppressor, Level 100 (GD 1.1.9.7) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator
Ravager 1:11 kill (no pharma/no cluster/no MoT) Vitality dw gunner Oppressor vs. Ravager 1:13 kill (no pharma, no hp potions, no MoT) - YouTube
SR 75-76 6:02 run Vitality dw gunner Oppressor vs. SR 75-76 (6:02 run) - YouTube

Physical snb shieldbreaker Shieldbreaker, Level 100 (GD 1.1.9.7) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator
SR 75-76 7:12 no short rooms Physical snb Shieldbreaker vs. SR 75-76 (7:12 run, no short rooms) - YouTube
Ravager 1:11 kill Physical snb Shieldbreaker vs. Ravager (1:11 kill) - YouTube
Callagadra 1:37 full facetank kill Physical snb Shieldbreaker vs. Callagadra 1:37 kill - YouTube

Some casters into the mix:

Acid RtA Vines Archon Archon, Level 100 (GD 1.1.9.7) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator
SR 75-76 6:03 run no short rooms Retaliation Vines Archon vs. SR 75-76 6:03 run (no short rooms) - YouTube
Ravager 1:17 kill Retaliation Vines Archon vs. Ravager 1:17 kill (new spec) - YouTube

Vitality Ravenous Earth Oppressor Oppressor, Level 100 (GD 1.1.9.6) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator
SR 75-76 5:46 run Vitality RE Oppressor vs. SR 75-76 (5:46 run) - YouTube
Ravager 1:48 facetank kill Vitality RE Oppressor vs. Ravager 1:48 kill (facetank this time) - YouTube

Cold Rimetongue Sabouter Saboteur, Level 100 (GD 1.1.9.6) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator
SR 75-76 5:53 no short rooms run Rimetongue Sabouter vs. SR 75-76 5:53 run no short rooms (final spec, test patch) - YouTube
Ravager 2:10 facetank kill (tough fight when facetanking) Rimetongue Sabouter vs. Ravager 2:10 kill (test patch - YouTube

Chaos Doom Bolt Pyromancer Pyromancer, Level 100 (GD 1.1.9.7) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator
SR 75-76 6:39 run (didn’t fish for a run with this one) Chaos caster Pyromancer vs. SR 75-76 (6:39 run) - YouTube
Ravager 1:06 facetank kill (tough fight when facetanking) Chaos caster Pyromancer vs. Ravager 1:06 facetank kill (low % winrate when facetanking) - YouTube "

[BOG]

If we talk about small changes - maybe, add an option to show BASE flat damage for various skills and skill mods (instead of one modified by your % damage boost), to avoid confusion for new players coming from other games. I’d like it to be a default option too.
Also, fix some tooltip bugs. For example, Eye of Reckoning tooltip still counts DoT damage several times, resulting in incorrect number. And this bug is there for years, without any fix!

@ASYLUM101

This happens unbelievably often for modded playthroughs. I constantly see people struggle through the game in custom modes like Grimarillion and DoM. Since custom games don’t have difficulty requirements, you can start the game at ultimate and these people have this mentality like, “I’m not a noob, I’ve played D2 before!” and they jump right into ult and get wrecked.

As if D2 doesnt wrecks you completely at Hell difficulty, even if your build is only half-bad… Damn, even if your build is perfect, but gear isnt, you still get wrecked occassionally. Not to mention 1/4 of mobs there are simply immune to your main damage type, and you can do nothing with it. GD, at least, allows us to stack RR to counter most immune enemies.
Sure, if one only played D2 on normal, and expects to breeze though GD on ultimate just as easily… well, make a proper comparison first.

[banana_peel]

This is the best i can do with my laptop now:

Dunefiend Dervish SR75-76x3 [9.7] - 6:36, 5:58, 6:00

Picked up a random fast SR farmer i like. Had huge lags so i played badly and too safe. Bossrooms were unfortunate. But overall you can see this is 6 min performance. Here is Ravager video with the build shown.

Dunefiend Dervish vs Ravager [9.7 test] - 1:17

And this build didn’t make it into top20 btw.

Overall i can see how this Octavius is one of the best SR farmers for sheer loot per minute. But the issue is inherent to the gamemode with those tight packs ideal to rush through them with heavy dot skill. You can’t completely remove this dynamic, you can only tame the potential of dot stacking on a shield or change SR mob spawn layouts for more spread.

[Norzan]

@klasperstanze

But random targeting on Cleansing Waters makes this devotion proc utterly useless. One MUST be able to chose the target, or else the proc is useless.

But the target is the player.

[anon94264551]

@banana_peel

Stormtitan has level of dmg comparable to full Blitz line

@banana_peel

Fire shield builds use Blazing Charge

These runes are usually the only way to deal shield %WD for non-oathkeeper shield build, and it only hit 3 targets. They are very like a granted solo skill.

I’m gonna calculate the damage here. I got 14k trauma damage per second on my shield, so this will provide Amatok’s Breath 33.6k from shield %WD, and calculated trauma damage per second from the rune itself is 13k. If you take the mace into consideration, the trauma damage per second from the rune itself will be less than a quater of the rune’s total trauma damage per second. Let alone the trauma damage from the %WD part has much longer duration.

It’s the same situation of StormTitan, or even worse. Because StormTitan is of 400% WD.

But if you consider those non-DoT build, those rune’s damage is not as good as you claimed, so it should be the sky high global DoT to blame.

@banana_peel

consistent than Chains of Anguish

You have underestimate that belt. It provides good values. It’s absolutely a very good choice for DoT builds, especially in SR.

1. The damage penalty doesn’t affect already-dealt DoT
2. In SR you walk much much more than in CR, and you don’t have to fight enemies continuously. You can hit one group of enemies, trigger the debuff and spend the 8 second on pulling other groups of enemies.
3. A warlord has three charge-through skills, in some aspect the move speed penalty is avoided.
4. It’s easy for Octavius set WL to have another 33% ele res over cap to avoid the ele res penalty.
5. Now that an Octavius WL is having over 4000 armor and 44% phys res, the phys res penalty is not so hurting.
6. In fact in SR you are not always being attacked, DoT builds with enough DoT duration can kite those enemies when the debuff is triggered without losing much damage output.

These reasons make the belt quite reliable in SR. Of course it’s not consistent in CR because you are fighting all the time.

Now that it comes to Chains of Anguish, I would like to figure out a little bit more.
One problem is that the belt is also being abused in direct damage builds for SR farming, in our Chinese GD community, and it works very good. It’s cool to be a DoT SR farming belt, but I think it should carry a bit more risk, especially for direct damage builds. We could try to raise the damage penalty a bit.

@banana_peel

You can find more builds like that on my or banana_peel’s channel.

I’ve followed you and lee for long. To be honest I personally think there is no one which could match the SR farming speed of this Octavius WL, nor with a close speed but much tankier. Now that you guys don’t play 3 in row, at least there should be even 1 single run sub5, let alone sub 4:30. The only sub 5 SR run I saw was BA DK and that was long ago. Maybe a lot of them are better at CR than this Octavius WL because Chains of Anguish doesn’t fit the fighting style in CR, but if you take farming speed as a whole regardless of CR or SR, do you really think a towered buffed potioned CR average-4:30 build have better farming efficiency than a sub 6 SR runner with nothing else needed?

@banana_peel

Acid RtA Vines Archon

Acid RtA vines is another story. It’s retal so it should definately kill ravager faster than others (however 1:17 is still not fast enough for a retal, but considering its superior CR speed I think its ravager time is just fine). It now has quite fast CR speed (I remember a 4:45 “naked” run without any towers nor banners in your channels) with incredible tankiness. Now that you mentioned this, I would not call for nerfs immediately but put that on the watch list.

[klasperstanze]

Last time I tried, the target was a random enemy.
This way not even the player is inside the radius, so debuff onSelf should not work either.

[Gnomish_Inquisition]

doesnt’ target random from my experience
it targets the enemy you attack, so if you have it on an aoe skill it obv mean more target potential for it to trigger on, so it can trigger away off on some dude struck in the corner
there is random target element to all attack devos, and that is if your main target dies from the very hit that triggered the devotion, then it will pick some other enemy in range on the screen
(you can observe this super hilariously when the only available enemies are on the edges of your screen when your main and otherwise sole target was in the centre)

[klasperstanze]

I see, maybe I indeed tried it with an AoE spell, will look into it, THX!
If the player is not within Cleansing Radius, will player debuffs be stripped?

[Gnomish_Inquisition]

nop, have to be within the seal range afaik

[klasperstanze]

Alright - then my request remains as to at least solve that very problem - please

[lMarcusl]

IMO it should either gain a massive AoE increase, or get a decent AoE increase and center around the player, or, at the very least, always dispell the player and then the target as well. I use it on a few builds that are susceptible to reflected damage or reflected DoTs and even when used in melee range it sometimes only dispells the target in front of me but not me if there’s even the slightest inch of distance between us.

[Veno]

could you post grimtools of the build pls?

[Dragon9112]

1. “DEFILER” buff please. no need to change any skills if that’s not in the plan but some items or some other thing to make necro and demo live happily together ( they are not very sad but don’t enjoy being together either )

@Zantai

Unless you enjoy screaming into the void for therapeutic reasons,

2. THE VOID - okay no need to get to the base skills if you don’t plan to. I am not asking for chaos DoT because that will probably cause a mess. But a nice -x% chaos resistance to Hungering Void(if you want people to pay with health regen ) and/or some more chaos items

3. Due to items I found I overcapped my resistances at level 42 (normal hcssf)except chaos and aether those are at 49 and 46% so I avoided entering bloodgroove and went to vanguard of the three . this might sound weird (and might make everyone angry ) . *buff FG monsters so that people follow Vanilla then AoM then FG as the expansions came out . btw I am playing primal strike with Charged korvan storm halbard of thunder , planning to make a druid.

4. Color difference between chaos and vitality little more prominent would be good .

5. Blood of ch’thon and binding seals - buff to drop rate or more monsters to get those from
   I am not experienced enough to comment on any other aspect of the game.

out of context -

1. character which can wield a gun and a melee weapon - through some special item or end game relic or after killing a super celestial . - for GD2
2. Please revive Sahdina in GD2

[banana_peel]

@anon94264551

But if you consider those non-DoT build, those rune’s damage is not as good as you claimed

For any WD build rune dmg is usually the highest skill tooltip you have in your arsenal. It’s absolutely as strong as i claim. We’ll have to agree to disagree here. And yes, added dot part might not be the majority of the rune’s dot dmg. But there is a breakpoint of sorts - when you kil most enemies with a single critted rush-through skill. If you tame the dot capability enough, the build will have to start rushing through more and more monsters one extra time which will drastically increase total SR timer.

@anon94264551

You have underestimate that belt. It provides good values. It’s absolutely a very good choice for DoT builds, especially in SR.

I would agree on most of this section. The belt indeed seems to be very strong for a dot build in SR if you use it smartly.

@anon94264551

at least there should be even 1 single run sub5, let alone sub 4:30.

Me and lee play a fraction of your guys SR playtime. We never fish for runs and basically upload the first one that looks good. Just skip-watching most of my sub6 SR75-76 videos you will see that a better mutator and room situation will lead to easy sub5. SR is INCREDIBLY random. Why we never speedran it. The mode that can give you either a 1:20 no mobs huge room slog or a 15 sec room with a harmless worm is not suitable for speedrunning in any way.

@anon94264551

To be honest I personally think there is no one which could match the SR farming speed of this Octavius WL

It appears you’ve made a good case for the speed of the build (although i’ll have to play it myself to have more valid opinion). Still my problem is reliability. You claim you almost never die with it but how come in every second run you shared the build dips to 5-10% HP? Speedrunning SR alone is risky, speedrunning it with a big debuff proc is risky, playing with 8% leech and 160% AS and the best sustain source bound to high cd skill that can be interrupted with than AS is very risky. And it all shows in the videos. This build is tuned heavily into dmg. It’s running SR very fast but it’s not facerolling the gamemode with eyes closed. You are in constant danger.

Smth like Guts EoR will not be as fast. But it’s leagues above in ease to play and will suit less experienced players much more.

Btw, i think the build that can compete with Octavius in loot per minute SR farm is phys BA Death Knight. But it’s much more epxensive.

[ginowei]

in fact the SR record in Chinese players is refreshed in 3’53’’ (Octavius 3 Warlord,played by knospe).I do not think any other build can break the record easily.
【恐怖黎明1197】奥3狂热领主3分53秒极限速刷【版本漏洞，飙车之王】_单机游戏热门视频 (bilibili.com)

[Bananow9393]

Again just want to point out something that will probably be lost in the void… And it’s again about chaos itemization (I know I’m tiring don’t have to tell me).

Anyway here it goes: chaos is the only damage type that doesn’t have neither MI ring nor MI amulet. All other damage types have either one of them or even multiple (fire and acid - looking at you!)

[anon94264551]

@Veno

grimtools

WL: Warlord, Level 100 (GD 1.1.9.7) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator
Templar: Templar, Level 100 (GD 1.1.9.7) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator

[anon94264551]

@Dragon9112

“DEFILER” buff please

Try some Aether Retal DE defiler lol

[anon94264551]

@banana_peel

You claim you almost never die

I thought what I said was “not easy to die”?
I die like one time per 10 runs on average but remember these:

1. One single death doesn’t terminate the SR trip, nor does it set the timer zero which would lead to trophy loss.
2. Already-dealt DoT dmg is not wiped by the death. It still works after the death, so when you enter the SR again, you don’t have to deal you damage again, unless you’re in the boss room (because already-dealt DoT is high enough to kill all enemies except bosses), but in boss room it’s much safer. All that matters is you have to rebuff yourself and walk the path again. It’s only adding an extra 20 second to a single run and influence the average time very little.

It’s just requiring experience. (I’m not even the most experienced guy with this build. You can see sometimes I was stuck in crowds or I charged through nothing.)

@banana_peel

BA Death Knight.

I have also tried some of your builds including the BA DK. With respect I died even more with most of them if I pull huge crowds like what I did with this Octavius WL. It’s just because I have to facetank with those non-DoT builds but they don’t have enough DA or res over cap. Your builds are specially built for CR so usually they’re of less than 2600da and 20% res over cap on average. This can be fixed with CR buffs but not in SR. Plus DPH of enemies in SR is higher than in CR, it’s just lower enemy density. I have to adjust their DA and res over cap and the damage went even lower.

Among them the BA DK is almost the best one, I can speedrun with it by just switch the amulets to Avenger of Cairn and correspondingly change some augments.