Some do better than others, I’m just asking for some improvements; not complete equalization with non-dot builds.
it would be nice for bleeding builds to have some regen (maybe) instead of adcth, since you can’t leech much with that numbers anyway, or to have more heal sources like Dryad.
7 Likes
Can we get a health regen buff to Lizard devotion? It is in most cases the inferior devotion compared to hound which gives 15% Armor while Lizard, even in hp regen situations, doesnt seem better. Just playing with another Veilkeeper build and noticed this so i wanted to point it out.
3 Likes
It’s too late to embed health regen alternative to all bleeding setups. It would require change on all gears and devotions to reach even 1,5-2k consistent regen. Healing procs and flat damage buffs would be better. Nevertheless devotions should provide more hp regen. Not just the regen focused ones but almost all should provide some small regen improvements, which won’t break any build anyway. Regen with small numbers do nothing but with some support it can help a few builds.
3 Likes
Regen bleed feels pretty good
and while not all builds might get access to the same regen trickster/warder does, or the heal procs on Bloodrager
maybe it’s possible to sprinkle enough (passive) regen on Berserker, Fox, Unknown Soldier, Mogdrogen, and Huntress that it could start compensate for classes that are not trickster/warder, while using dreeg pants and gollus rings (slots that doesn’t block anything on bleed builds anyway)
3 Likes
Sometimes, buffing those devotions might lead to unexpected results. I never play any bleed builds, but nowadays i include Fox into many of my builds just because of its 6% ADCtH, that seems much better for me than puny OA provided by Raven. Despite its bleed bonuses go down the drain…
→
^slapping regen on fox wont make your builds OP or other builds that take fox
main concern for sprinkling regen would be how they affect existing regen builds, like would more regen so an oathkeeper oriented bleed build could function equally decent make a regen trickster/warder too boosted because their native class regen already
tho i suppose it might be a moot point anyway, if everything has to be balanced with a Warder’s concern in mind 
Thank you all for participating in the v1.1.9.8 discussion! This thread will be closed soon, but in its place a playtest will begin posthaste based, in part, on your suggestions.
7 Likes
Uhh? When did this happened? 6% ADCTH for a T1 devotion is kind of insane, surprised Zantai hasn’t nerfed it to like 3% (to match Toad).
And now that i said it Zantai will nerf it to 3%.
1 Like
I use fox on every bleeding build except the ones with Axe(with Berserk you need some alteration). On other builds; If I need OA or speed, my preference is always Raven, Hawk or Spider but it’s good when you need lifesteal in cost of sacrificing other stats. With cold builds I always prefer Toad over it since it has %6 Beast damage. And not that every builder uses ot it for Adcth on every build so either they missed the change like you or it’s not OP.
PS: It was %4 before the buff so…
I think I’m gonna left this last one here, since many bleeding axes don’t have physical damage support, I feel Berserker devotion should change the %physical damage part to %all damage, kinda like hydra devotion.
4 Likes
Some general pet feedback since i’ve been trying a lot of different builds lately and I feel like its the weakest playstyle. Making a well rounded pet build is a struggle. It’s possible to make skeleton crucible glass cannons or deep SR crawlers but they are very specialized for one task.
There’s too many holes to patch. Summoner/pet resists, CC resists, summoner sustain is a big issue, movement speed. All while trying to keep damage and defenses.
Pets single target damage are pretty decent and aoe can be solved in most cases, but I think its fair to give some general buffs to gear and pet devotions to bring them closer in line with non pet builds.
Increase health regen on devotions/gear.
Movement speed on pet boots are really low for some reason and often requires 3 components to still not be able to cap MS. Increase MS on pet boots and these components could instead help patch resists.
Add some CC res to gear or devotions for both pets and summoner. Pets are lacking freeze and slow res.
Improve pet resists on gear/devos. Mostly aether/chaos/pierce/bleed.
Maybe decrease nemeses taunt resistance.
Some examples:
Lost Souls Cabalist
Beastcaller Conjurer
Ghol Ritualist
Bysmiel Conjurer
3 Likes
Pulls sub-4 minute Crucible timers on multiple builds. Weakest Playstyle.
You’re gonna have to pick a lane!
1 Like
At no point did i ask for ways to improve crucible timers. The whole point of the post is that pet builds struggle to find a middle ground between glass cannon and crawler. It’s not like a prefer pet builds over regular builds so this is not me trying to improve my favorite playstyle.
Anyway i presented my case and you reply with your regular snarky manner. Are you interested in feedback for the playtest or not? And as usual you are clueless about the crucible meta but you can try to act otherwise.
4 Likes
Posts like nofika has made might not look big but they require a lot of thought to put all the data you aquired over testing dozens of builds in brief readable summaries.
So when you do that work and all you get is a sarcastic reference it’s very disheartening and triggering. It happened way too often over the years of feedback, and even the most calm and collected testers will break under your perfectly executed jokes.
Anyway, i agree with his post on pets. I’ve tested all best legendary pet sets with various supported dmg types as well as couple of custom builds during final weeks of previous playtest and came to the same conclusions: pet builds need general defensive (for summoner) and QoL improvements. With a pet build, you need to jump over your head and break a few fingers to get results you can achieve with other playstyles using 2-3 buttons.
6 Likes
While the party is still going…
First build I want to talk about is - drum roll - cold Thermite Mine Commando (yes, you’ve read that correctly!):
Commando, Level 100 (GD 1.1.9.7) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator
When Vindictive Flame regen Conduit got reworked into cold TM (::sob-sob::), I was thinking for a while how to make this work. Turns out, Commando with Alkamos scythe and Yugol relic was the answer - kinda.
Cold minefield looks pretty cool (pun intended), and actually makes TM much more bearable as a RR source! Voracious Reach is a main skill though, with Blitz providing a decent amount of burst damage.
It’s a rather pleasant build overall, surprisingly, yet there’re some issues. I was very, VERY lucky to have those affixes on the weapon - otherwise I wouldn’t have TM at max rank, which would suck no doubt since build has limited cold RR. While not that critical, Blitz is also one point short from max rank ::feelsbadman:: As you can see, build uses two faction items that support both skills - both lack % frostburn damage though. Having that would somewhat help because as of now the build has only 1500% frostburn.
Speaking of itemization, in my case I happened to have ridiculous amount of bleed overcap (100+%), although that’s mostly my problem as I haven’t had different affixes on MIs, and I picked pants mostly for phys res, but +2 to Menhir’s Bulwark and Counter Strike are also nice. Speaking of CS, it’s pretty bad for non-retal or bleed. To be honest, builds I’ve seen put one point in it - if at all. Doesn’t seem to be worth the investment, so a buff to either %WD or flat would be welcome. At least Vindictive Flame provides total speed and regen.
And one more thing regarding cold TM: there’s an item, Martin’s Crest, that happens to add a bit of extra damage to it. The only real thing that stops me from using it is that it only supports fire and lightning. I suggest to change it to % elemental + burn, frostburn and electrocute - will change nothing for those who use it, will help more wonky setups a wee bit.
Next one is aether Vire’s Might. Well, to put it bluntly, it kinda sucks. Not sure what I was expecting though, but I figured if it exists, someone has to make it work. The build:
Oppressor, Level 100 (GD 1.1.9.7) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator
Please note how it uses three double rares, and pretty good ones at that. Also both VM and Safeguard are one point short from max ultimate rank ::feelsbadman, again::
The video:
(sorry for shitty quality…)
The build itself is rather solid to be honest, except Vire’s Might not doing shit most of the time. Despite being at rank 25, having 10% TDM and a shield damage on top, it doesn’t feel impactful, like at all. To demonstrate this, the second time I fought Iron Maiden (starts at 11:53; first fight is at 4:26) I didn’t even use VM. This resulted in only 5 second difference! And that’s supposed to be you main damaging skill (+ converted Volcanic Stride).
Makes you wonder if using aether RR Guardians Conduit, or even aether EoR one, and droping VM altogether would bring better results. I’m pretty sure it would.
Now, I’m not sure exactly how to go about this. For example, Vanquisher’s VM is “spammable” and it benefits from DoT anyway. On aether though, you have it on ~2,2 sec CD, don’t have a DoT, and can’t really reach high Volcanic Stride levels. If it hits rarely, make it really hit - by increasing its flat AND total damage mod. Another approach is to (maybe) make it stand out a bit: add petrify or stun effect on it. At least this way it will have some uniqueness, I guess.
And the last one is chaos Ravenous Earth Cabalist:
Cabalist, Level 100 (GD 1.1.9.7) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator
Not much to say about this one, I kinda like it. Thanks to maxed and fully converted Foul Eruption killing trash is never easier, but single target damage is rather low despite Doom Bolt. One thing I want to ask is to add +2 to RE on Hysteria ring. I took it for full fire → chaos conversion mostly, which doesn’t accomplish much, thus it feels like I punished myself for not picking Combustion Band instead, which would provide more much needed RR. I hope you see what kind of point I’m making.
Also, one general request/idea regarding any Conduit build: please consider adding +2 to the skill it supports.
Obviously it would help two of my builds above, but some ultra meme stuff like aether Shadow Strike or elemental Blitz will benefit from it even more. Some builds could rather easily max out their main skill, some remain 1-2 points short, but some don’t even have anything to help raise their rank, except for + all skills.
And something not balance/gameplay related.
Is it just me or since 1.1.9.7 the amount of sounds played at one time was reduced? When there’s a lot of stuff going on on the screen, some sounds get “eaten”, so you can’t hear them. It was an issue before, but in some update from ~2 years ago fixed this, I think it was something like “increased the amount of sound slots”, or whatever. Please take a look at this as well.
Thanks for reading. Sorry for so much text =(
2 Likes
What sarcastic reference? What jokes? The meme I posted after the classic personal attacks came out that I’ve definitely never heard said before?
You don’t get to call a playstyle that can do sub-4 min Crucible clears and high SR shards the weakest playstyle and have it be taken seriously. The fact that pet builds can do deep SR clears AND fast Crucible clears, even if it is mutually exclusive, means they have plenty of viable options and playstyles, even if said playstyles are not to your liking.
The people that have a clue about the Crucible meta should know that piling on resistances, CC resists, defenses, and especially %MS on pet builds is a very fine line between a niche playstyle and one that absolutely dominates the content because it has no weaknesses. A position pet builds existed in before and should not be repeated.
Maybe the balancing act of pet/player stats and viability in the Crucible/SR is not to your liking and doesn’t land on your top build lists, but it has clearly found its fans in this community and has been a very popular option for years.
Not to mention there is no rule that states every build must be equally effective in both endgame metas. If anything, pet builds are in that sweet spot where you actually have to make sacrifices to be great at one or the other. You could argue that the failure is on my part that builds exist that sacrifice very little to excel in both.
It is irrelevant if the build takes 2-3 buttons or 12. Somebody is going to like that 12 button playstyle and think the 2-3 button builds are for the uncivilized simpletons.
Pet builds got various defensive bumps in v1.1.9.7. You can say that was not enough or it did not hit all of the builds, but to say it is the weakest playstyle, definitely not by any metric that matters.
1 Like
Not to my knowledge, I’m afraid.
The one where you are calling out on a bias/agenda a person who wrote an honest feedback, instead of asking for specifics or at least presenting your design vision as you did in this post.
All playstyles can achieve sub4 with several glasscanons. Props to balancing done over the years.
Everyone gets to call a playstyle weakest if it lines up with some sensible definition of strength.
For me the variety of builds and ease to play are definitely a part of playstyle strength, and for these criterias pets are near the buttom.
But pets are hard to compare to other playstyles because it’s the only style that has an opportunity of 100% dmg mitigation to the player. So if your vision is pets must be handicapped in other areas for this price i’m fine with that.
I also agree that playstyles need weaknesses to be set apart for gameplay variety. It’s just that pet builds have way too many of them:
- cc res 2. pet cc res 3. mov speed 4. attack and cast speed 5. usually low OA/DA 6. overly large amount of skills 7. building stifled by almost a must have taunt, very rare source, and almost a must have regen focus for lack of health regain sources 8. extremely limited health regain options for pets which is why 90% of successful pet builds include Occultist
2 Likes