“DEFILER” buff please. no need to change any skills if that’s not in the plan but some items or some other thing to make necro and demo live happily together ( they are not very sad but don’t enjoy being together either )
THE VOID - okay no need to get to the base skills if you don’t plan to. I am not asking for chaos DoT because that will probably cause a mess. But a nice -x% chaos resistance to Hungering Void(if you want people to pay with health regen ) and/or some more chaos items
Due to items I found I overcapped my resistances at level 42 (normal hcssf)except chaos and aether those are at 49 and 46% so I avoided entering bloodgroove and went to vanguard of the three . this might sound weird (and might make everyone angry ) . *buff FG monsters so that people follow Vanilla then AoM then FG as the expansions came out . btw I am playing primal strike with Charged korvan storm halbard of thunder , planning to make a druid.
Color difference between chaos and vitality little more prominent would be good .
Blood of ch’thon and binding seals - buff to drop rate or more monsters to get those from
I am not experienced enough to comment on any other aspect of the game.
out of context -
character which can wield a gun and a melee weapon - through some special item or end game relic or after killing a super celestial . - for GD2
For any WD build rune dmg is usually the highest skill tooltip you have in your arsenal. It’s absolutely as strong as i claim. We’ll have to agree to disagree here. And yes, added dot part might not be the majority of the rune’s dot dmg. But there is a breakpoint of sorts - when you kil most enemies with a single critted rush-through skill. If you tame the dot capability enough, the build will have to start rushing through more and more monsters one extra time which will drastically increase total SR timer.
I would agree on most of this section. The belt indeed seems to be very strong for a dot build in SR if you use it smartly.
Me and lee play a fraction of your guys SR playtime. We never fish for runs and basically upload the first one that looks good. Just skip-watching most of my sub6 SR75-76 videos you will see that a better mutator and room situation will lead to easy sub5. SR is INCREDIBLY random. Why we never speedran it. The mode that can give you either a 1:20 no mobs huge room slog or a 15 sec room with a harmless worm is not suitable for speedrunning in any way.
It appears you’ve made a good case for the speed of the build (although i’ll have to play it myself to have more valid opinion). Still my problem is reliability. You claim you almost never die with it but how come in every second run you shared the build dips to 5-10% HP? Speedrunning SR alone is risky, speedrunning it with a big debuff proc is risky, playing with 8% leech and 160% AS and the best sustain source bound to high cd skill that can be interrupted with than AS is very risky. And it all shows in the videos. This build is tuned heavily into dmg. It’s running SR very fast but it’s not facerolling the gamemode with eyes closed. You are in constant danger.
Smth like Guts EoR will not be as fast. But it’s leagues above in ease to play and will suit less experienced players much more.
Btw, i think the build that can compete with Octavius in loot per minute SR farm is phys BA Death Knight. But it’s much more epxensive.
Again just want to point out something that will probably be lost in the void… And it’s again about chaos itemization (I know I’m tiring don’t have to tell me).
Anyway here it goes: chaos is the only damage type that doesn’t have neither MI ring nor MI amulet. All other damage types have either one of them or even multiple (fire and acid - looking at you!)
I thought what I said was “not easy to die”?
I die like one time per 10 runs on average but remember these:
One single death doesn’t terminate the SR trip, nor does it set the timer zero which would lead to trophy loss.
Already-dealt DoT dmg is not wiped by the death. It still works after the death, so when you enter the SR again, you don’t have to deal you damage again, unless you’re in the boss room (because already-dealt DoT is high enough to kill all enemies except bosses), but in boss room it’s much safer. All that matters is you have to rebuff yourself and walk the path again. It’s only adding an extra 20 second to a single run and influence the average time very little.
It’s just requiring experience. (I’m not even the most experienced guy with this build. You can see sometimes I was stuck in crowds or I charged through nothing.)
I have also tried some of your builds including the BA DK. With respect I died even more with most of them if I pull huge crowds like what I did with this Octavius WL. It’s just because I have to facetank with those non-DoT builds but they don’t have enough DA or res over cap. Your builds are specially built for CR so usually they’re of less than 2600da and 20% res over cap on average. This can be fixed with CR buffs but not in SR. Plus DPH of enemies in SR is higher than in CR, it’s just lower enemy density. I have to adjust their DA and res over cap and the damage went even lower.
Among them the BA DK is almost the best one, I can speedrun with it by just switch the amulets to Avenger of Cairn and correspondingly change some augments.
Nice run. With absolutely insane luck for chunk layouts and bosses. Note that in the last chunk the build ran into low mob density for the first time. It was still a good room but the time spent on it was 40 secs. I think, at least tuned into dmg Vanquisher and phys BA would complete this exact layout in 4 mins.
This is false statement. Most builds i played and certainly all builds we’ve made for top20 are SR ready. We tested top20 mostly in SR. Some builds might have res for the least common dmg types - pierce and chaos - overcapped by 15-20%. But ele res, aether and vitality are 30%+ overcaps must, usually 35%+.
I have played 6 or 7 runs with it, never died. Don’t remember other players reporting of the build’s low tankiness. It’s a playstyle difference. Phys BA is much more flat focused so you don’t need and don’t benefit from pulling huge crowds.
In general top20 was made with regular players in mind. Regular player gets into the fight and finishes it, then moves on. People who play cutting edge speedsters in GD are in the vast minority. Btw, Diviner Binder is one of the strongest and most affordable builds in the game. But it didn’t make it into top20 because it’s too hard to play correctly. Anyway, saying my builds are built for Cruci is incorrect. Implying top20 builds are built for Cruci is even kinda insulting.
Ours are always of “insane luck” indeed, and yours are the top 20.
So it’s time to stop this discussion I guess.
I’ll keep waiting for a top 20 build to do a sub 4 in the near future.
Chinese players usually farm only in SR,and this is a hard record no one refreshed it till now,I don’t think a “i think” idea has enough stringency,a video should be more persuasive.
we pay high attention to your BD cause you are really good at CR rush and high game skill,but I don’t think you play as nice as SR rush.
at least,a SR record BD need some nerf on the “abuse”.
in fact i think zantai should provide a fixed variable SR mode for players to test the BD intensity in SR rush so that we can discuss the BD without the “insane luck”.（like boss rush mode in Castlevania）
What did you even mean? Those 4 min runs you’ve shown are not the build clowning on the gamemode, they do have insanely lucky laoyouts. Would you even have the nerve to deny it, speedrunning SR yourself and knowing for the fact how volatile it is?
It’s a very good build, perfectly put together for SR speedrunning. But it’s not clowning on the game as you guys are trying to paint for some reason.
Top20 was made with different benchmarks, it’s a different topic. But i would say that we haven’t utilized this rush skill trauma playstyle and haven’t tested a build for that during top20 which was an ommision. If we did, this build might’ve made it into top20.
True. But I don’t think i know or knew anyone outside of chinese community who speedruns SR. It’s an extremely volatile gmaemode and speedrunning it feels like 10% skill and 90% casino.
This is also true. If a build can tank a Celestial and at the same time is capable of such high farmrate it deserves attention. But IMO the build exposes the gamemode issues much more than set issue or gear issue in general.
The possibility of high flat dot WD application from both weapon and shield with low recharge rate (Vire - Rune rotation) to the whole pack while moving to the next one is the best playstyle for SR not only for dmg but also for dmg mitigation.
I would suggest either of 3 things
increase enemy spread in SR
force player to pick up more orbs to complete the meter instead of filling the meter with mobs died behind from dots
reduce the possibility of pack-wide flat dot application from rush skills by either moving certain dot values into flat ones or reducing the width of rush skill hitboxes
TLDR my sentiment: i dont wanna see dmg type or even set destroyed because you guys (kudos to you) found an abuse for a gamemode.
Yep, it is insane luck, but we don’t just get one insane-luck run but many times. Will you consider the 4:10 run also insane luck?
I could also have some guy help you to build a mod that can immobilize the map set, so that you can have exactly the same maps every try and see if there is another build that can do the same thing.
That’s what really makes us uncomfortable. We’ve had millions of SR runs among our GD community and reached an agreement that this Octavius build is being much much more powerful than all other builds, but you denied our conclusion even before you really learnt its style and really tried it but blamed everything on “insane luck”.
I’ve provided everything you asked for evidence, but you still doesn’t believe our conclusion that this one is being OP in SR. When can you eliminate prejudice and discrimination against us (of being dishonest or worse at playing this game)?
Maybe there is some language barrier but you sound deeply offended all the sudden.
You guys make millions SR runs yet you post anything here very rarely, and when you do it’s almost always either retal or some new shade of phys Warlord. Did you test other very fast builds? Like Vanquisher? Maybe fire FoI, maybe some auramancers? Maybe some single target focused builds? Or are all the million runs done with phys shield builds?
There is a certain disconnect between communities. If not for you and couple other guys, the rest of the world would’ve never known what chinese community is cooking over there.
Because of statements like that we can’t get on the same page. THIS EXACT build much more powerful than anything else? We are way past the point of game where some particular build breaks the game, and everything else is leagues below. The dot on this shield exists for 15 months now. Since general phys buffs dmg type was slowly being nerfed.
Where were all the crazy timers before? Maybe you guys just figured out and perfected a certain playstyle, and it’s more the issue of the gamemode to blame rather than the set or dmg type?
P.S. In the record run posted above the build has hit sub 1k health twice per one fight at 2:45 mark.
please no
it’s not very relevant to the discussion but you already can run into low mob density maps with no nemesis on top and spend like a minute or more finding some trash mobs.
tbh, I wanted to say that at least for me SR has two glaring issues (except other glaring issues …):
low density maps, as I said above, also sometimes they don’t have nemesis spawn point and it gets even worse
portal to another level may spawn VERY far from the player, resulting in some not really enjoyable voyage to it.
Millions runs with different builds of course (altogather millions. Thousands for one specific build including this Octavius thing).
Retal is because I like it and Warlord is because it’s indeed very very strong in SR. The conclusion is not made by me alone but our community. It’s just because I surf this forum more often than others, so it was I who figure it out.
Then is it worthy changing all the gamemode because of this one specific super speedrunner? Yep we perfected this playstyle much later than the 7 times buff, but it doesn’t mean that it is the way it should have been. When a problem is figured out long later than it came into existence, can you just say “wow it has been there for so long so it’s not a problem”?
No, please never do this. SR farming is already taking much more time for a lot of builds than CR, especially those with only one charge-through skill. You are suggesting nerfing all SR farming builds.
So do we not wanna see all SR farming builds destroyed because of one specific super speedrunner.
And we are not suggesting destroying the set nor the dmg type. Aegis and Forcewave can be kept least touched by moving the global trauma damage to their mods and adjusting their numerial numbers.
I meant spread within packs, not around the map. High concentrated aoe builds are very fast in SR because they can delete tightly packed groups of mobs.
You cant say that. But you also can’t say you have an authority in what exactly is the problem just because you happen to have a record run at hand.
What i meant is: if it took a whole community 15 months and “millions” of runs to figure out one “OP farmer” build, where is guarantee there is nothing else? Maybe the same type of minmaxing with Vanquisher? Maybe stacked with dmg mods bleeding Goredrinker? Your build has good but not gamebreaking solo output, it also is not even the fastest phys build in Crucible, let alone across all dmg types. If it’s that abnormally fast in SR speedrunning, maybe that has smth to do with the gamemode.
Final word i have to say on the topic to stop bloating it. Here is a random video i recorded with an affordable build:
First chunk SR75 took 50 seconds. Third chunk of SR76 took 49 seconds.
Now replace these chunks with levers room and worm fight room, each takes this build 15 secs.
Now you get 4 minute run. I’m not making millions of SR Grand Casino runs to make this come to life. But i hope you can clearly see how a random single target focused build with two movement skills can reach an “OP” timer.
I’ll send you one file of the same maps as the sub 4 run, and another of the same maps as the 4:10 run, later today after work. Let’s see how you can do with our “insane luck”.
Seems that you still have prejudice and discrimination against us of being bad at playing this game.
Problems are solved once they are found. Next time we find another problem, we solve that. And if some time later it is proved strongly not a problem, we still have the chance to bring it back.
Why should I use this specific build to go CR farming if I can have much higher farming efficiency in SR?
If a build has better farming efficiency in CR than in SR, then we are gonna use that in CR, and the same as when SR being better than CR. Now it’s a average sub 6 SR farming build without any buff potion and it’s the fastest one to our knowledge. Considering that one single SR run has a lot more trophies than one single CR run, it’s still among the best farmers.
A probably average 7:30 SR farmer has a similar farming efficiency as average 5:00 in CR. You can count the trophy difference yourself. And widely acceptable SR farmers in our community are like average 8:00. Spellscourge Battlemage is a good example. It was around 8:00ish in SR, but it’s super tanky, so it got nerfed a bit.
Blame the gamemode? Come on please no, never. How many other so-so builds will be deeply hurt if the SR farming goes even slower?
buff please. no need to change any skills if that’s not in the plan but some items or some other thing to make necro and demo live happily together ( they are not very sad but don’t enjoy being together either 
)
okay no need to get to the base skills if you don’t plan to. I am not asking for chaos DoT because that will probably cause a mess. But 
a nice -x% chaos resistance to Hungering Void(if you want people to pay with health regen ) and/or some more chaos items 
) . *buff FG monsters so that people follow Vanilla then AoM then FG as the expansions came out . btw I am playing primal strike with Charged korvan storm halbard of thunder , planning to make a druid.
