I want to draw attention to the Flames of Ignaffar modifiers, particularly the “+100% Vitality Decay to Flames of Ignaffar” modifier. The only place I see that working is if you’re running full Voidsoul (which has flat Vitality Decay on the 4-piece set bonus), but then you’re running Deceiver to maximize the set usage instead of its intended use as an Apostate weapon. If you’re running Vitality Flames of Ignaffar, you’re running Decree of Malmouth, which gives you tons of flat damage to FoI plus a RR modifier to Word of Pain.
I’ve been running this build to showcase the weapon + off-hand combo, and it needs more in terms of making it a full Apostate weapon in order to make it a worthwhile investment overall.
Increase the +Reap Spirit points to +3, as there are barely any Chaos gear that gives points to Reap Spirit (there’s Fiendmaster Raiment and that’s a good item for Reap Spirit in a pet build, but not for doing damage with Reap Spirit like Clairvoyant’s does)
If you want to combine Reap Spirit Vitality Decay with FoI Converted Vitality Decay, you’d need a way to increase Weapon Damage to make the Weapon damage portion of FoI useful, like adding OA and flat Chaos damage to Harbinger of Souls to make it worth using as an Exclusive instead of Aura of Conviction, which has traditionally useful OA and Physical Resistance.
i don’t see it
looks fine
in conjunction with the TDM or just regular stuff it would be pretty decent
you can get fat weapon dmg, which paired with necro (not thinking reap spirit) would still be decently useful in combination with Harbinger because cast speed and flat dmg
Chaos FoI has both the Voidsoul set and the Black Scorch set, the latter of which has a weapon as part of the set, so Vampirris is competing with a large number of known quantities, so the major part of this weapon is the Reap Spirit component, of which it desperately needs more +Skill points to be able to use.
Stacking weapon damage with Harbinger of Souls is nice with the flat damage and Casting Speed, but you need like 150 OA to be able to use HoS as your Exclusive (which is conveniently how much Aura of Conviction gives), even if you switch your devotions around to stack more OA, I was only able to get barely above 2700 using HoS as my Exclusive, hardly acceptable when FoI gets some juicy crit damage.
All in all, the build is okay in terms of doing SR 75-76, but at its core, Vampirris is a weapon primarily focusing on Chaos Reap Spirit and has a secondary focus on Chaos FoI, and since nothing really does Chaos Reap Spirit like Vampirris does, it needs some secondary buffs to be able to fully take advantage of it. Getting more Reap Spirit points and some help in getting OA is not too outlandish to ask.
what i mean is, slap voidsoul on that sucker, do a proper split chaos/vit foi (you’re trying to convert all to chaos), or even convert chaos to vit, and it seems like it’s going to be fine “for chaos/vit foi or vit foi”
Using SR set etc seems to be what’s holding vampiris mod back here (in my eyes), not that the actual mod is useless, because looks decent even if just for chaos foi too
lots of WD to be had, which can then benefit the poor dot part of foi too spcially with tdm mod
your devo route also leaves you stat “starved”, on appearance, which is why “all in all” i’m saying i don’t see it “here”; because it seems like it can be fine, if approached differently, ie it’s not that the mod is horrible, it just doesn’t fit this approach super well, but might fit another better
*as for chaos reap spirit that’s its own little meme imo
can confirm that void soul does indeed work fairly well with vampirris cuz I did a build like that some patches ago.
was able to do 75-76 and even tank ravager (even tho not 100% consistent).
should give you a general idea what this thing is capable of doing.
also chaos reap spirit defiler with chaos bwc is an okay option with it FYI.
If I want to run Chaos Voidsoul FoI, I’m pairing that stuff with Occultist because set-boosted Doom Bolt is boss. It does great damage and heals 25% of the damage it does with it. Plus Voidsoul FoI is leeching so much anyway that you’ll hardly feel the weapon damage loss if you pick another weapon over Vampirris (I prefer Segarius’ Tainted Blade to hardcap Possession and make the Energy Cost of FoI more tolerable).
You’re not picking Apostate over Deceiver because the Chaos Reap Spirit mods aren’t worth giving up the set bonuses of Voidsoul you get by choosing Deceiver. And that’s what I want the weapon to serve as: an Apostate weapon where Reap Spirit is essentially a mini Doom-Bolt, and the mods are unique enough that you’d want to pick Apostate over the other options.
I think that you are just stuck on your SR set concept and getting everything possible out of Vampirris. For example, you can do FoI/RS using mix & match such as example1,example2 etc. You’d have less CC and have to juggle the resists some, but SR is a defensive set - and that is its strong point.
Not every weapon allows maximum profit from all of the combined skill bonuses, especially with a generic set such as the SR.
Why not, though? I’m of the opinion that more items can use the Blazerush treatment and get tons of bonuses that maximize all of its combined bonuses. Some may disagree, but that’s the point of raising the idea in the forums.
For comparison, I created a Voidsoul Deceiver to see how it compares with the SR set Apostate.
The Deceiver undoubtedly does a ton more damage, but a single stun and I’m done for. Channeling builds require CC resistances to be maxed out, which was why I went for the SR set for the Apostate in the first place. I can probably fiddle with the Deceiver to maximize Stun resistance, since the damage and leech are obviously there, but that would be outside the scope of this thread.
i don’t understand this, what are you giving up?
voidsoul blocks nothing there even if we just pick vampiris for Foi, on deciever or apostate
i mean, you can already do that
the issue isn’t the foi mod, or even the reap spirit mod, as Mergos already said chaos reap spirit works, if ex you go defiler; Reap spirit is merely such a dedication you either can’t really do it as a throwaway implementation; or if you do then you gotta full focus foi, ie not use SR set for chaos/vit foi
which i tihnk is a “mistake” no matter how you look at it
either you focus Foi with either split chaos vit, on voidsoul, or you convert as much chaos to vit as you can; still with voidsoul, because Foi has to be the main focus in either case. And chaos reap spirit “on foi inclusion of vampiris” can’t be the main focus or focused dedication but more “you take what you can get”, ie no reap spirit offhand, at most maybe you use reap spirit gloves(which might be questionable too here)
and in both cases, you pick a better suiting devo route
i should probably also once again mention my stance/perspective of “just because an item gives XY modifiers does not mean the items intends for you to make a build using both mods at the same time”, while it totally can be done, and in some cases even is obviously directly intended, it doesn’t always have to be the case. And if we look at vampiris in individual application, the mods are fine (imo)
For a comparison, you could test something like This
for a full Foi/RS focused on Vampirris.
With 4 MI and 1 conduit you can get whatever you want for extras. And it gets RS more frequently than DB, while approximating the same relative devotion path and main skills.
ofc, RS is not a nice AoE like DB but the skills are different.
Well that stands in direct contrast to my argument that more faction items need the Blazerush treatment where the modifiers get supercharged in order for the class to truly shine. Apostate has terrible build diversity as it is, so I don’t know why people are so vehement for the status quo when there are numerous ways to give the class a better standing.
In response to hammyhamster, I’ll give your proposed setup a try and see how it stands with the multiple greens and different equipment set-ups. I immediately see an issue with Energy regeneration (FoI is a hungry little bugger), but it’s worth checking out different configurations to see which one is superior.
chaos is however also not really the class’ native pairing
basically 0 support in Necro means that’s probably not what you “really” want, and inquis has tertiary chaos support “at best”, ie chaos apostate, is probably not the aim nor the apostate combo most deserving of consideration for that class boost, so vampiris isn’t really the indicator for that class buff being necessary
which means the blazerush comparison isn’t really apt or “1to1” if you will
Um, the weapon is a Chaos weapon and gives Necro and Inquisitor modifiers, of course I’m going to try a Chaos Apostate with it. The fact that there’s little support means that the support it does have should be buffed to make up for the lack of support elsewhere.
I tried hammy’s set-up (appreciate the suggestions, it is better than the SR set version I was using) with the 2 double rare greens + 3rd MI, ran it through Crucible, and failed 10 out of 10 times. In case that’s not indicative of the build’s performance (due to my playstyle, haven’t been in the loop for a while, etc), I checked other Voidsoul and other Chaos FoI builds to see what they used.
Banana_Peel’s Voidsoul Deceiver: Actually uses Vampirris, stacks up Chaos damage to take advantage of the 22% Weapon Damage modifier. Vitality Decay modifier may as well not even be there, and wouldn’t be affected by buffs to the Necro side.
Bagel’s Voidsoul Apostate: Focuses on Vitality FoI and uses Decree of Malmouth, which I already said should be used if you’re going the Vitality FoI route.
Purlpo’s Voidsoul Deceiver: Similar to Banana_Peel, focuses on stacking Weapon Damage and Chaos damage. Does not attempt to figure in Vitality or Vitality Decay at all.
So no builds try to incorporate the Vitality Decay modifier to FoI, even the ones that use Vampirris in Voidsoul, and no Necromancers try to use Vampirris to play Chaos Reap Spirit (I know there’s a discussion about Clairvoyant buffing Aether Reap Spirit, and all those problems are magnified ten fold when going Chaos Reap Spirit). Seems like enough reason to buff the Necro side of the weapon to me.
maybe because flat dmg, on a channelled skill is just better? doesn’t mean you can’t incorporate it
mergos already said he did chaos reap spirit defiler
not really (imo), it means when making an ultra meme you need/should get more creative; or just focus on fewer aspects of the modifiers
again, blazerush was a completely different scenario, vampiris has already been proven to work “as is”, you’re just wanting to use it in the least optimal way, which might then be asking a bit much, vs blazerush that straight up didn’t work at all at the time
chaos foi works with vampiris
chaos reap spirit works with vampiris
whether or not we can make a split chaos/vit foi work with reap spirit remains to be seen, but suppose that would be the next challenge/if the decay mod can be utilized in some fashion
but it’s not a blazerush scenario “since it’s actually working” already
edit, done did a doodle attempt at split dmg Apostate, Level 100 (GD 1.1.9.8) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator, besides the actual bonus dmg being low (lots of slots occupied by chaos dmg/not vit buff comp), general stats doesn’t look terribad, tho would need to craft 3x slow resist bonuses probably for optimal stuff
If anything imo the biggest issue I have with voidsoul is if u want to make it deal actual good dmg you end up with rly bad energy regen & even the wooping 72% reduced FoI cost on this wont safe it from having said energy issues.
If I would go outa the way & grab ectoplasm the DA, extremly needed stun res & already low’ish hp would suffer even more.
Furthermore for a heavy armor set voidsoul doesnt end up with a respectable amount of armor at all.
When we have a look at another heavy caster set like light’s defender for example there we have some nice armor bonuses & even added % absorb!
Again, imo Vampirris is fine as is even tho I can see why Maya would want pet bonuses on it.
My suggestion would be to beef up void soul into a proper heavy caster set with better armor bonuses, more energy regen & maybe even add some % cdr to the shield cuz not having any cdr % at all often feels horrible for devo & skill consistency.
why tho?
the modifiers doesn’t apply to pets, so it would be sorta meaningless to add pet bonuses, unless the aim is some weird chaos hybrid pet build?
Simply for the sake of build variety.
Adding bonuses for chaos pet reap spirits wouldn’t hurt the FoI & raw RS dmg part of it at all and would open up more stuff for pets.
“how” tho, is my question, since the modifiers doesn’t apply to pets/wraiths, it would just be a chaos stick with some pet bonuses
why would a pet build pick that over an actual pet stick “with solid pet build modifiers”
+10% speed and 50% all pet dmg etc “generic” pet stats, aint gonna be great for a pet oriented build, when it’s competing on a modifier slot
I don’t know what kind of ideas @Maya has in mind for chaos wraiths or chaos pets here.
I just don’t see why it shouldn’t get something like “cold/vit pet dmg converted to chaos” with some pet bonuses like flat dmg, % dmg, speed, res, oa/da or whatever to name some possibilities.
Imo, again, the more build options/variety the better.
