Hello everyone, I wanted to ask Mr. @Zantai why the Veilkeeper set supports both WPS and Upheaval at the same time. This is a bit strange, because WPS overrides the triggering of Upheaval, and at 100% WPS, Upheaval does not work at all. It turns out that the set’s bonuses conflict with each other. Maybe Seth’s focus should be on one thing?
P.S. sorry for my english, translated using yandex translator
so the set can be used with something other than shaman/upheaval builds
I think set has problems with Lightning Melee part but it’s not because set needs changes.(Though Arcane Will modifiers looks weak on paper) Set needs Weapons.
There are four Aether based 2H melee weapon that can be used with the set and three 2H range oness(and atleast 1 2H range for lightning)although I don’t know much about range builds so this text will refer to melee build options.
When you look for lightning melee weapons, you find Ultos Stormseeker which has it’s own set.
And you find Stormreaver which is a hybrid item and it’s clearly more Cadence suited than Savagery but atleast usable, though you really lack physical resistance with it and you literally need to use non-lightning gears to even get 24/16 Savagery since Veilkeeper has no bonus for it.
And the obvious question is, these weapons have their own archetypes so why anyone try them with this set?
So you want to play Lightning Melee with Ritualist, WPS focused? You need weapon. Druid with Upheaval focused? You need weapon.
Aether Spellbinder has Krieg set already so the set creates an alternative on that side which is cool; Aether Ritualist is now an option with the set+conduit amulet but I don’t know how it’ll perform.
Aether Vindicator also possible but no exclusive skill.
Aether Druid? Very bad idea without any RR, you have only Arcane Will buffs, Upheaval and health regen. So any Druid that should use the set must be lightning and use Savagery to utilize Upheaval.
I didn’t actually made any of these, though I really don’t need that to foresee Aether Druid part will fail. It’ll be like Aether Battlemage which atleast has some flat damage from deadly momentum to boost dps but all Druid have is unconvertable electrocute damage.
So this is my 2 cents. But like Maslow once said, If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail so I see everything as melee possibilities. If devs intended this set to have exclusively range part while creating it, it’s okay for me.
PS: Medal part makes DW utilization really hard for the set so I didn’t include one-handed weapons.
3 points in Maiven? LoL, no proper regen, no proper lifesteal. Good work.
am i looking at a different build?
9% lifesteal, on top of maxed out Feral hunger 
- and spear, and korvaak, and ultos ?
as for the maiven pointer, isn’t that kinda the most efficient, given the 1% point cost after?
4:41 on melee lightning in title surprised me but it’s a hybrid of course with Totems, false advertisement I’d say 
No what I meant is this build is made for only crucible, no investment of any kind of defense;
beside that it’s a total hybrid; the build gains very little from Arcanist side. Everything is one pointer except Inner Focus and Overload for OA that’s all. Finish time is great so I said ‘‘Good work’’.
But I already mentioned this weapon as a hybrid and pre-existed archetype. Build doesnt even utilize the flat aether damage so it can be done without the set, with different shaman+x combos. You can just use the helmet and the medal for Upheaval bonus.
Sorry but the build is not a proof that Veilkeeper set doesn’t need anything.
true, but also shows it doesn’t completely “suck” as stated in a previous thread
and something else being “better” ofc doesn’t mean veilkeeper “needs” anything, since that’s the case with many a set and item.
And if madlad roman can make it work in Cruci, i’m sure someone can make it work in SR too, heck it might just be borderline @eardianm’s “regular” low defense SR setups 
- tho he’d be the judge of that ofc
(and i’m gonna guess roman had his reasons for not bothering with aether conversion belt/ring)
idono, get creative meng, imo it just feels like these days when something doesn’t immediately work the “solution” is to ask for buffs instead of making memes 
- then again maybe my bar is just lower because i don’t except every combo to break records or do all content + high SR, at the same time - since i’m a filthy casul
I’d like to suggest changing the name of the set to Whalekeeper.
It’s already widely used thanks to a certain GD streamer
and could also be a reference to Godly Plate of the Whale from Diablo 1.
If the set’s appearance is to be changed eventually
to differentiate it from SR set, I propose the following
Could be a part of Carribean of the Pirate Shark DLC
designed by @Leopold
It is nice idea!
@tqFan KEKW
Whalekeeper fits well with Leopolds “Grim Pirates” DLC idea Future Maps
is it sad i think Whalekeeper set looks better than Veilkeeper, that helmet is so much better than SR crowns 
Not like the totems are doing the lifting 
The best Lightning weapons if you aren’t using Ultos set or niche Elgoloth crossbow are Aether imo, in part because lightning + shaman all appears to be a rare stat. Vortex for Ranged and Arcblade for melee, since aether conversion is almost free for shaman. Former passthrough is unbeatable for PS or Upheaval spam, latter is just solid stats, you still get lightning (elemental) %, and the proc is ace.
For the OP, I’ve seen the threshold seem to be around 3200OA so far. Above that, adding WPS to upheaval is a damage loss. Below, seems like you’re better off mixing in WPS and just taking the rare upheaval as a bonus. So is definitely gear/build dependant.
Example of the latter, dual damage Ritualist using VoS that Roman tested in crucible this morning. The necklace is a dream but has a couple realistic options for replacement without a huge speed loss. Big piece is getting those of readiness or of attack suffixes where you can. Taking necro WPS here is a big hit, but I’m not convinced it a problem in the same way you ignore bonuses skills on other sets plenty of times.
Another good work but you seem to misread something; I already mentioned the Range part of the set is good enough and was talking about melee part.
The only Aether Melee weapon that you can convert base damage and gain also %damage is Temporal Archblade. Which is a great weapon with good proc. I already counted that as one of the 4 2H Aether weapons that can be used with set. but that one also not a totally melee weapon and has no Shaman/Savagery bonus.
There is already Ultos Druid Archetype. To have a Veilkeeper Druid melee archetype we need a more proper weapon that’s what I’m saying. You can use Stormreaver and even that isn’t enough to get 24/16 so you use crimson claws; which is also another hybrid weapon. There is not enough weapon that supports Savagery.
Anyway, please share your results here aswell so we can know what’s done or forgotten.
That’s fair, was really just pointing out that the aether weapons pull double duty for Shaman usage since they can be used for lightning as well, which I believe is a built in expectation based on conversion options. Looking specifically melee and lightning, you would have to dip into the blues after the big two you outlined. You get extra attack speed on necro side and some from savagery, so running something like https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/9420 is not out of the question and +2 all to help get last savagery charge, or https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/8796 if you want the attack speed over the blanket +2.
Also nothing preventing using the https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/12672 MI and ignoring PS bonuses, since there is a big lightning damage and +4 savagery suffix available.
Either way, Shaman going lightning tends to get enough damage % from other gear, skills, and optimized devo tree to not suffer hugely from missing it on weapon. Savagery does seem about the hardest AA to cap with non weapon/set items though while staying on damage type (piece is hilariously well supported), but that’s drifting from OP topic.
Mr @Zantai can you give any answer or explanation on this issue?
The more I try to make builds with this set, the less enticing it is to pick Arcanist. I’m hoping that side gets buffed. Which looks better, Druid or Elementalist? What about trying Conjurer with its 12% physical resist or Vindicator with Seal and WoR? Deadly Aim by itself is nearly as good as Veilkeeper Arcane Will. Yeah Mirror is nice to have, but I make builds all the time that work well without it. I doubt the 20% crit damage from Overload is better than having 25% more resist shred.
Maybe move the bonuses from Arcane Will to IEE. Not even remotely kidding. And buff base Arcane Will while at it.
