If one was to go this route, instead of increasing total damage how about increasing max damage instead?
Funnily, ghoul got me killed nice and flat in my latest session.
Attacking Naxen Shade. See health drop fast and ghoul proc … Face-tanking time!
Swing-swing-swing dual chillstrife, health bar playing yoyo.
Kill Naxen Shade with full healthbar … yaaarrrr, so strong. Now let’s walk out of those rings of death.
…
Wut, why am i back at Coven’s Refuge :rolleyes:
Regarding the 2h discussion, given the importance of actually hitting with a slow-attacking, hard hitting weapon, i think fumble protection would be the best option and would make 2h truly unique.
Oh, its gona be hard T_T Sry for google-translate. :eek:
- As everyone know, %resistance provide increasing returns.
Adding 5% resistance to something at 0% level reduce dmg by 5%. Adding 5% resistance to something at 90% cut incroming dmg by 50%.
Due to player %resistance cap we cut down 4/5 of non-phyz dmg before any +%max resistance is applied. We are way too deep intro increasing returns territory alredy and there is abudance of stuff that provide %max resistance, pushing non-phyz dmg intro non-existence. - Its hard to cap phyz resistance and near impossible to overcap. Means all these nasty debuffs that do nothing for other types dmg screw players that try to stack %phyz resist.
Lets take Valdran with his 36 flat res reduction as example. If you have 80% phyz resist it decrease it to 44% . Now you take ~3times more dmg from phyz attacks. With a sinlge debuff.
3.Armor also provide increasing returns and work after %phyz resist (unless it was changed in AoM, should be easy to test right now). It also increase effectivenes with enemy %dmg reduction and %phyz resist.
If we take a generic 10k phyz hit against naked caster with generic 1400 armor with 70% absorbtion ,15% phyz resist and no %dmg debuff our poor caster would recieve 7526 dmg.
If we replace our poor caster with heavy metal tank with 25% dmg reduction, 4000 armor with 1000% absorbtion and 40%phyz resist we will take only
500 dmg.
I don`t quite get why 2H is so special to warrant additional survivability buffs just because they are 2H? 2H need dmg, that the main reason why ppl play 2H .
Can you calculate out the caster scenario for me please? How did you come to 7526?
EDIT: When you say 100% absorption, you mean armor absorption yes? Not like maiven’s, correct?
2nd EDIT: My calculation is as such: [10k - (0.7 * 1400)] * 0.85 =7667
If we replace our poor caster with heavy metal tank with 25% dmg reduction, 4000 armor with 1000% absorbtion and 40%phyz resist
Armor also provide increasing returns and work after %phyz resist
I think it is armor first, then % resistance (just had a look at the Crate game guide to confirm)
-so (10k*0.75 -4k) *0.6 = 2.1k
But even 2k is not that hard to leech back.
If we take a generic 10k phyz hit against naked caster with generic 1400 armor with 70% absorbtion ,15% phyz resist and no %dmg debuff our poor caster would recieve 7526 dmg.
Caster would be (10k0.75-1.40.7)*0.85 = ~5.5k <- assuming 25% dmg reduction too. Shows how important dmg reduction is! Aura of cheese ftw.
The same can be said about casters too. Casters typically don’t rely on these mechanics for survivability.
In my experience, they generally they use CDR to increase the uptime of things like MoT, maiven’s, phoenix, etc.
With the 2H Speed penalties, not only is it a lot harder to reach a good Attack Speed, but speed debuffs from enemies are much worse for 2H builds than other types of builds.
I don’t know whether fumble pools are ubiquitous enough that a simple “don’t just stand there in a fumble pool and apply face to attack button” is not a worthy response, but the fact that there’s no way to protect against it disproportionately hurts 2H builds. As Ptiro says, huge damage is nothing if you have a 50% chance of missing every attack simply because you decided to attack right when the enemy casts a fumble pool (unless they have a large cast time in which case you can reasonably expect people to do a better job piloting).
Maybe change the skills so that fumble applies after standing in the pool for X number of seconds instead of applying instantly? Give something so that players are not at the whim of RNG and that player skill can positively affect a build’s performance.
I will also give a +1 to reducing the damage gap inherent in weapons. DW already benefits doubly from having flat damage, so 2H damage floor should increase considerably so that DW has much more a mountain to climb before catching up to it. Instead of values like 150-500, it should be more like 400-550.
… Instead of values like 150-500, it should be more like 400-550.
It also doesn’t make sense. Oh…I accidentally brushed you with my 2H mace I’m swinging as hard as I can.
I feel like that would still hurt a lot. 
What about a built-in -10% physical resist for two handers? Or a 5% chance to stun for 1 second? That would fit the theme of big power hits. I’d imagine that these would still benefit casters more than AA, but I don’t see a way to prevent that.
So with all the talks about Fumble protection I see no one mentioning ranged 2H or is melee 2H the only thing that matters?
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-10% physical resist seems rather pointless if you are not using physical damage build.
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5% chance to stun for 1 second would be near worthless as any enemy that you can hit enough without it dying for it it have a decent change to apply will be immune to the stun.
I think technically fills your main hand and off hand slot, things that affect both slots (like flat damage) should be applied like 1.5x, or 1.25x. This could also apply to attack speed (although it would end up just cancelling out with the natural attack speed nerf already in place) and would give a pretty good DPS boost.
As someone who has attempted many (shitty) AA 2h builds, I find the 2 biggest problems are
A. like people said, secondary debuffs like slow being so much more of a DPS loss. The fact that most 2h builds are pretty much steered directly into “facetank it bro” camp makes this a lot worse as well. I think 2h weapons should come with some secondary resists. I feel another neat edition help surviveability and put 2h on the same camp as S&B is to pull a darksouls and have 2h weapons (or at least some of them, probably not ranged) also act like shields and block a portion of damage. Fume Ultra Greatsword anyone? Shouldn’t be at all comparable to actual shields, but you get the idea.
Another thing I feel is that there just aren’t a lot of sets that support 2h. Most 2h weapons aren’t tied to sets, but lots of melee AA sets have either a shield or 1h weapon as part of the set.
2H ranged isn’t as clunky as 2H melee as the attack animation is a lot quicker.
I agree with some of the ideas.Kraken is good devotion,but adding more crit damage and OA is not bad.Also two handers are pretty big so they should have enough space for two augments and components.Also more 2h weapons should have built in life steal.
The Attacks per Second stat of ranged 2H and 2H Melee weapons have no practical difference (it even is in favor of melee) I think this is simply issue of visual perception and not reality. If there is actual proof that 2H is significantly faster then 2H melee then I would agree (it would not be the first time the stat screen lied to us), but I have yet to see actual proof of this.
I think it’s got to do with the attack animation of WPS iirc, though I may spouting nonsense.
Ptiro assumption was that armor applies after resistances. This is not what the game guide states but you end up with 7520 if you minus armor last.
I can only remember 1 wps that does this, Markovian’s Advantage.
Other then this Ranged builds have just as much off a problem with a lack of attack speed as melee and also suffer from the ranged version of fumble, impaired aim. If 2h Melee deserves a buff then so does ranged 2H
I think for 2h ranged the nerf to attack speed should be removed entirely. It just doesn’t even make sense. Wielding a big slow clunky mace sure, but how does having a bigger gun make it fire slower?
Not gonna talk numbers here since I don’t have the slightest clue about that. But I’ve noticed some of you talking about the “identity” of two-handers and I got an opinion on that.
From a historical point of view, two-handers were not only designed for attacking with massive blows but for parrying such blows as well, as they usually have a huge crossguard. Many two-handers have additional parrying hooks on the ricasso.
Well, looking at the actual 2H swords in Grim Dawn, many of them seem like they would not be the least bit practical in the real world
But still, adding block chance, armor bonus or fumble protection makes some sense, right?
Ofc i was only thinking about swords in this post. None of this makes sense with axes and maces I guess, unless you think of the haft as a means of defense. But it’s a fantasy game after all so the suggested changes should apply to all 2 handed melee weapons. To me, fumble protection seems to be the best idea so far. I also like the idea of 2 components (but only 1 augment) on a 2H weapon.
(on another nit-picky note, all the new “halberds” from FG are technically not halberds as they are missing the typical axe blade and hook. They look more like double bladed naginatas or glaives to me. Still they could be used in a defensive stance like a quarterstaff)