why are we punished for resetting builds?

why have borderlands games always had huge replay value? because once you choose a character from a class, you get to modify it endlessly for free (nominal fee). the real fun in borderlands is in trying out several builds in a session to optimize and to specialize.

why are we punished to do the same in grim dawn? I can almost imagine that a free-to-play game would have a mechanic where you get punished for re-setting points and the player would need to watch ads or pay to reset. This should not be the case in a game we’ve paid for advance.

I’m now L79 and re-setting a point costs i750. I’ve totally lost interest in farming yellow kit to pay for re-speccing.

apart from this absolutely maddening detail: great game. 250 hours sunk so far.

How does one not have enough money ?

A character in grim dawn is just not ment to be respecced 10 times.
Thats just the way this game is ment to be played. There are enough ways to change that though.

This doesnt mean i share your point of view or the point of view of the developers.

Because they often change skills/devotions around, causing one to continually have to respec skill points. I have a few level 85’s that after many tweaks, cost 25,000 per respec point. If you are resetting a build, that can add up to quite a bit. Ultimately, if that is the case, I just reroll and level to 85 in 3 days or so, allowing me to start fresh again. I do agree with the original poster to a degree however, I would like to see a “tonic of skill reset”, just make it extremely rare. They already have one for devotions, add one for skill points.

See, the Borderlands argument doesn’t really work because in Borderlands each character has at maximum something like 2-3 viable builds. And then of those 2-3, you pick one that suits your playstyle. This is partly to do with Borderlands’s historically lackluster balancing and partly to do with the fact that Borderlands gives you so many skillpoints to work with relative to the available places to invest them. So sure, you CAN respec in Borderlands…but do you really need to? Maybe you’ll respec out of that one node you used for leveling…also, the respec cost in Borderlands is no small fee either:

respec cost = 100 * 1.12^playerlevel

Be glad that’s not the case here.

Anyways, because builds can be so diverse and because your character is supposed to have an identity or, at the very least, a theme, respecs get expensive. You shouldn’t be able to (easily) swap everything around on the fly because then what’s the point of making new characters?

Edit: Also I see your 1.5mill, 420, and raise you 600 grand.

This game is about mistakes that you make and the experience you get from it. Full respec’d a few times until satisfied. You are not even halfway through despair, my friend. :cry: Also, money is easy to obtain if you never spend it.

750 is literally nothing, not even 40k to respec 50 points and you can make that 40k in no time at all. “punished” he says :smiley: You are only punished when you respec (too many) times and get it up to 5k+ areas and by then you should REALLY know what you are doing and not have to do that shit anymore. If you get the value any higher than that you either fucked up or have some ancient character from an old beta version!

That cost is basically nothing, you find more money than that in a minute or two tops.

I’ve never found this to be a problem. I’m pretty happy with the way things are

i didn’t even know it got remotely high, how the heck are you re speccing THAT MANY points, are you OCD and trying to wipe clean each time rather than just taking a minute to think?

Excuse me?

It is called theory crafting. It is what we do when we wish to find the optimal setup for any given build. A lot of times, what looks good on paper does not translate well in game. Keep in mind some of our characters have been around since release, and when skills and devotions are altered, it can completely change the way a build works, and many skill points need to be shuffled around.

It has nothing to do with OCD, it has to do with enjoying the game as we see fit to enjoy it. Like I said, it is nothing to take a character to 85 once you have a stash full of gear, and the iron bits to back it.

You probably already use this, but just in case you dont…


Maybe this will help keep your costs down when re-planning your spec.

Just a thought

Could be much worse. They significantly lower the cost to respec a looooonnng time ago for the sake of beta with the intention of reverting it upon release but they never did.

Indeed friend, I do use Grimcalc, as I have been playing since day 1. :slight_smile:

There have been many many patches which totally screw up builds, and in theory crfating a new build, and testing it out in the field, costs can add up.

not really, because you completely ignored the theory part and went straight for the practice part :wink:

Either way, the costs are low unless you respec several hundred points or so

I don’t get what the big issue is. Unless it’s your first character, then as you play GD more you’ll be respeccing less and less. That’s because with each respec you should be refining your build, not starting over from scratch. If you’re the OCD type who can’t help but COMPLETELY switch builds every few hours then get yourself a trainer or download a blank character.
If you’re not going to play the game the way it was meant to be played, then just play the game using your own rules.

Then again it depends mamba.
Some builds have multiple skills to kill, debuff, CC. Ect…
A good exemple is the Sorcerer Callidor’s Temperst build.
Are you gonna max Olexra’s Flash Freeze or the modifier of CT? What About Devastation, Flashbang, Reckless power… ect.

My point is, you can plan as much as you want, but sometimes a skill worth more than another one to max for overall killing speed (group vs Single target) and survivability. And the only way to know for sure is to test in game (a.k.a practice part as you said!).

Oh for fuck’s sake, let us be crystal clear. The theory craft portion comes in the form of a piece of paper, and figuring out totals, versus enemy defense numbers, etc. Today, I wanted to try changing my Stormheart Sabo a bit. I took a total of 10 points out of other skills, and put them into Thermite Mines for some resistance reduction. I also took 5 points out of Tree of Life and put them into Solael’s Witchblade. Over the course of 30 or so trial runs, I found that killing speed on Fabius was not influenced drastically enough to warrant some of the bonuses I lost, so I put the points back where they were. That is a total of 20 skill points respecced in one trial. Over the course of a characters lifespan, through several dozen patches, and changing the focus of the entire build itself ( not just the minor intricacies ) this can add up. This character did not even start out as a Stormheart DW Sabo, keep in mind. I also change my builds entirely during the leveling process to choose the most expeditious route to 85, which can also add many respec points along the way.

Bear in mind now, that I am not even the one complaining about skill reset cost. I did not start this thread. I said it would be cool to have a Tonic of Skill Reset along with the Tonic of Clarity. I have MANY millions of iron bits/resources, enough to respec all 15 of my 85’s several times each entirely.

And no, you cannot truly theory craft efficiently without some sort of damage parser such as ACT ( just one example ), that I’ve used over the years, mostly in my MMORPG travels. We have no hard numbers during the course of a fight or instance to read from, we go by feel mostly.

This whole “play the game the way it was meant to be played” statement is comical. There are many different skills one can focus on within a dual class setup. You’re darn right I can play around with different skills without it being deemed “OCD”. It is what makes these games fun to me, the ability to have fun playing around with different combinations, without conforming to one specific build for a blademaster, one build for a warder, etc. As I had stated a couple of times before, if I do not want to part with the iron bits, and start fresh with a new idea i mind, it is nothing to bring a nw toon back to 85 in a couple of days.

Thank you.

sounds like you are respeccing a lot, in which case you literally have to pay the price.

There is no reason why you could not either try a different char instead of respeccing the same one over and over, or even why you do not stick to a build unless you run into problems instead of shifting points back and forth trying to find soemthing minimally better.

Bear in mind now, that I am not even the one complaining about skill reset cost. I did not start this thread.

I know you did not start it, but to me you very much sound like you are complaining

not disagreeing, just disagreed with calling that theory crafting;)

Also, the amount of experiments you do is still very much up to you. Apparently some people want to try every combination under the sun while othrs just have a few tweaks that combined do not amount to 20 points even.

if you fall into the former group, yes, you pay some iron for that, but the prices are not that unreasonable unless your respeccing is.