I’m sure upheaval worked differently but anyway, however it is it seems to be doing well
It uses WPS template, why it should work differently??
My knowledge of this dates back to jajaja’s warder so it could be…dated:)
You mean this??
It’s not a special case for Upheaval itself, but for whole WPS system. If you take all Soldier and Nightblade WPS you will also get pool overflow 130% so lower chance for each WPS, like Execution.
Yeah makes sense. The build works still it seems…back then people still thought upheval hit main target:D
Check https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwYO7uhf7LI this video. By your logic ~60% of our Crits should be Upheaveal proc, but in fact only a small fraction of our crits proc Upheaveal.
So, no, it has a low priority over other WPS.
Ok so I’ve asked around for people how get more into the entrails of GD and Ceno explain this, basically yes an no:
[i]“That’s not a terrible way of thinking about it, but I don’t think it’s true either. Upheaval will only activate off of default attacks, meaning not other WPS. But because WPS are weighted against the default attack.
However, it won’t always activate when a default attack is used, because that default attack also needs to crit. For WPS <100, that quote of yours is valid, however Upheaval will not weigh against other WPS when your WPS chance exceeds 100. At that point, you simply cannot proc Upheaval at all.”
“no, wps overflow simply prevents it from ever activating
if you want a more technical answer, all other WPS’s activate on-Attack, but the on-Attack weighting system is different from the on-Crit weighting system of Upheaval. If there were other on-Crit WPS’s, they’d weigh against Upheaval, but not against the other on-Attack WPS’s.
so going back to the earlier quote of yours”
“the game actually assigns 1-100 to Upheaval for the on-Crit system, and then 1-66 for a default attack in the on-Attack weighting system, 67-83 for Zolhans, and 84-100 for Feral Hunger. If the default attack procs on-Attack, and it happens to crit, then the on-Crit weighting system is rolled. But the entirety of the on-Crit procs are Upheaval, so you just get an Upheaval proc”[/i]
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Ok, after that last post I am confused even more.
Can Zantai or someone from Crate just clarify it once and for all? Because if it takes away some of the WPS crits, it’s bad. But then if it doesn’t and your char has 50% wps, it means it only procs after 50% of your critical hits meaning with 20% chance to crit for example you only roll Upheaval 10% of the time.
I did some tests on dummy as well last week, my findings were similar. Not very extensively since I didn’t have the time, I did sets of 5 kills around 12 times with varying setups.
My thoughts were:
Upheaval or not didn’t really make a difference in kill speeds, the build I had at the time had dummy times between 32 and 50s.
That was done with FH, ZT and sometimes MA/Upheaval.
I had the idea that the damage variance came from how often the 22/12 ZT procced or didn’t proc.
Upheaval was 15/10 with one hard point, the scaling didn’t seem worth the extra 5 points to cap it.
Taking MA seemed to consistently bring the times closer to the upper end of 50s so that might be a damage loss due to bad animation, or could just be bad rolls too.
As said, would need more testing to get more consistent data and averages but I didn’t have the time.
Tried various Devo setups such as Blind Fury to Upheaval and Maul on Savagery but it didn’t seem to improve kill times. I suspect this is because BF is just better and it doesn’t go off as often bound to Upheaval, some of this depends on your OA of course.
In the end, my preliminary conclusions were that putting the 1 point in Upheaval doesn’t seem to affect single target damage much, but it could help with clearing packs.
Considering the limited investment required and that it apparently doesn’t decrease your chances of getting the juicy ZT damage and the leech from FH, it’s probably worth the one point.
Will need more testing to get more definitive answers.
Avenger set is good now though, like the build in the OP I could do Gladiator 170 pretty comfortably with 3-4 buffs.
As long as you know what the dangers are and react accordingly, it’s doable with pretty good clear times. Mine were about the same as Fluff’s.
With the extra HP buff on Brute Force, it’s actually very safe.
Between that and the Ultos buffs to PS, you can make some really good 2h builds despite their inherent weaknesses.
I did some tests again - the more WPS you put in the build, the less reliable Upheavel will proc. So my conclusion:
- No WPS in the build, OA over 3500 - max Upheaveal.
2)No WPS in build OA under 3200 - onepointer Upheaveal
3)50%+ WPS in the build, OA over 3500 - onepointer Upheaveal
4)50%+ WPS in the build, OA under 3200 - don’t bother.
Yu telling me not to bother with it?
Granted i take chariot in campaign for 3.45K OA. Not only do i take it, i push it to 20:p
Anyone read the quoted text? 
Ok, 1st vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXWMLQ1ZnJQ
Zolhan 2 times, Feral hunger 5 times, Upheaval 18 times. Only crits counted, ofc.
2nd one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNh7pIzPHVY
111% WPS pool + Upheaval. Still activates.
Well, I just don’t feel like putting points intro something with <10% chance to proc. I`d rather max mastery bar
You know, you could even take the vid i posted as a test:p
So where is the right answer, how exactly on-Attack and on-Crits systems work together??
Perhaps the aoe hits on the second dummy trigger upheaval? Or for multiple projectile wps the one beyond the first can trigger it? I’m just throwing ideas out there, this doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me. Although in that second video upheaval seems to me to be overwriting the other wps, it’s odd to say the least.
There is something wrong(in genereal, not by your doing) in your video. You are default attacking too much with or without upheaval. Watch it at slow speed
I watched this ~10 times at a very slow speed, completely perplexed, but no, you’re right.
I then went to make a mod to confirm your claims, and indeed, the on-Crit pool seems to have mingled with the on-Attack pool. I’m getting roughly 40/50/10% Upheaval/Feral Hunger/Basic Attack procs with the following setup, which checks out from the math:
I would submit this as a bug, as it never used to work this way, and chalk things up to Upheaval actually being one of the outright buggiest skills in the game, echoing a statement I made last time I streamed.
Thanks for making this Ceno. Korsar, if you want to post he Bug, along with Ceno’s findings i am all in:)
Haha, deep inside I remember Zantai said once on-attack has a priority over on-crit, but second vid confused me
Will post a bug report.