[1.1.1.2] Duel of Savage Totemists - Ludrigan and Stormreaver vindicators comparison

DUEL OF HYBRIDS

NEW BLOOD LUDRIGAN VS. ALL TIME CLASSIC STORMREAVER

[BUILDS AND GUIDE OUTDATED. FOR UP TO DATE VERSION OF STORMREAVER LOOK HERE [1.1.4.2] OL' REAVER (vindicator remake)]

intro

For those less fluent in GD terminology, hybrid is a build that combines two of the 3 main sources of damage in the game: autoattack (melee or ranged), casts or pets. While pet hybrids never worked all too well, autoattack/caster hybrids are some of the strongest builds in the game (like dead now N&O/RoH or Venomblade dervish). In this thread, I will compare two hybrids that focus on the same two skills: Storm Totems and Savagery. Both are vindicators. One is ranged and the other one 2h.

in-game stats, gt and vids

Both setups are built with zero greens. Both are built rather offensively in order to max Crucible times while still being able to clear SR 75/70. Pics show in game stats with all buffs (one Kephlat proc might be missing and Ghoul is ofc missing).

STORMREAVER

Stormreaver GT

Stormreaver YT (CoD/4b/VB - 5:48)

Stormreaver YT (SR75)

[https://www.grimtools.com/calc/m234ELjV] Maxed offense Stormreaver (with a box) and 5:20 Crucible (move points from Storm Touched to Inquisitor Seal for more “normal” setup)

LUDRIGAN

Ludrigan GT

Ludrigan YT (CoD/4b/VB - 6:26)

Ludrigan YT (SR70) (2 points pulled from Bursting Round and Storm Touched and invested in Vigor)

Alternative more offensive setup for Crucible

verdict

STORMREAVER

Vids say it all. Stormreaver wins in every round. It stronger and tankier. More dmg, more health, more res, more armor. It’s one of the fastest no-green builds in Crucible right now and it clears SR75 with no problem (not much deeper though due to low phys res). But this is known to all who played it. Stormreaver is and has always been strictly top-tier.

4 totems with short cooldown plus Storm Shard beat five totems any day. 2h Savagery is how Savagery is meant to be played - easy 24/26 and 2h transmuter rule. Brute Force line makes up for very low attack speed and contribute tones to sustain. Even though both builds are what I call “foxhole builds” (staying in one area where your dmg is highest) Stormreaver offers much more dynamic gameplay due to very fast cooldown of totems.

The only problem is low attack speed and very low phys res.

LUDRIGAN

But what about Ludrigan? Honestly, I was surprised at how well it did. It plays smooth and I only experienced problems after SR 70. Thanks to hybridizing with Totems, it beats all purifiers in dw ranged division (arguments more than welcome). It’s lower Crucible times is mainly due to the fact that it takes ages to set up all 5 totems, and nothing can be done about it in dw hybrid setup (the conduit gives just 0.1s more cd than Halakor so it’s no good). This forces a somewhat static gameplay where you set up your totems and lure enemies inside with ranged attacks. I expect this build performing better with Groble Sky Effigy and 7 totems on 2s cooldown and Savagery just for the buff.

a few words on alternatives

RINGS
The main variance in all lightning builds are the rings. I took my time testing different configurations and my favorite lightning rings Kephlats turned out to work best for me due to really massive flat (about 6k wd difference on gt tooltip between Kephlats and Glyphs of Storm Witch) and 4 ranks to Inquisitor Seal (worth of 80-90 flat absorb). Glyphs are also great as they give much needed pierce res, massive oa and better heals, and the procs are strong. Possibly there is a configuration with Glyphs that is better than this (gts welcome in the comments). Coven blue rings are both good, especially for deeper shards due to da. One Time-Flux ring and Kephlat might be better for maxing Crucible times.

RELIC
Ignaffar vs. Eye of the Storm. Both have pros and cons. Better setups might be possible with Ignaffar (especially on Ludrigan who is Seal of Corruption behind Stormreaver in RR department and has more things taken in inquisitor mastery)

WHY NO BOX
Shaman has all the best proccers. It is my opinion that vindicators don’t need the box.

SECOND GUN for Ludrigan
I went for double Ludrigans because of best attack speed and cdr (4% translates to 0.2s on totems). Exonerator is best aa offensively with Dagallon as a strong contender. Electrollis needs a buff (but the description reads Master Agrivix designed it so I wouldn’t be surprised another nerf…;))

Alternative Ludrigan setups
Ludri cries for phys res so a natural choice would be Ultos shoulders. With Crimson gloves and Conduit it is even possible to get Savagery to 24/26. But after some testing I decided to stick to 2pc LD for the da and armor.

DIREWOLF VS. KORVAAK for Stormreaver
Very close. Because Savagery contributes quite a lot to dmg I stuck with Direwolf. Flat is almost the same (due to ranks in Savagery). Racial dmg to beasts is very important because of naturally low phys res and Reaperphobia.

All comments welcome

If you think some of my choices are suboptimal don’t hesitate to mention that. I would love to hear about it and improve my game. However, please support your claims with gt and logical argumentation. Thx 4 reading.

Credits

Thanks to Mad_Lee, 1x, Superfluff, thejabrixone for ideas and pre-post comments. Thanks to all who ever posted Stormreaver builds for inspiration.

Attachment: 13673484.jpg

1 Like

Heh, someone had to do it, great job, like it.
Results were pretty obvious, but now it is officially proved.

ps stormreaver cruci vid doesn’t work

Thanks, maestro.

ps stormreaver cruci vid doesn’t work

Fixed. I pretty sure you could squeeze 5:30.

Good read, thanks!
Yeah, faster Totem will win everyday vs slow Totem.

However, I am curious about dummy killing (single target damage). Will stormreaver still win?

Hey. Looking good. Aoe is aoe.

Ludrigan should kill single target faster as a concept. Have you tried dagallon or exinarator? Dagallon should be fun with strong ss too and pass through

It’s not just cd on totems. More Savagery, more sustain, more wd for procs (Ultos, Spear, even Bat contribute to dmg), more skill points, say more health and armor mean you never kite, more crit dmg, more… I better shut up before they nerf it! :stuck_out_tongue:

I did some dummy test but didn’t measure. Stormreaver seemed faster.

Thank you for the clarification.
Have you tried the other part of the Ludrigan Set (Druid/Mage Hunter): the 2 sec CD Pannetti ?

So the rollback didn’t wipe a lot of data between the pms, huh. Cause you got it up kinda quick. I’m honestly not surprised that stormreaver is still a lot better. That axe is like a whole set by itself. Add LD and you’ve got 2 sets :stuck_out_tongue:

Stormreaver is the build enabler. Pretty much like Tenebris on chaos EoR. Wonderful weapon. More 2h like this are needed.

As for Ludrigan, just because it lost to one of the best builds in the game doesn’t mean it’s bad. 6:20 in today’s crucible is pretty good and SR70 on a ranged with no greens… I don’t think squishy purifiers can beat this with their silly Fireworks and 10k health.

I tested Exonerator, Dagallon and even Arcanum Electrollis. Exonerator is best aa dps wise. And it gives total speed so it’s good for casts. Dagallon is great but it seriously needs more attack speed.
But with totems often jamming that 0.2s cdr from second Ludrigan actually makes a difference (I was seeing all 5 totems on the counter much more often).

Somebody posted a Ludrigan druid. It was rolled back. The arcanist part of Ludrigan is weird. Irrelevant if you ask me. Like demo part on LD was before the Sunjacks conversion buff.

Challenge accepted. On cruci at least. I can’t stomach slugging through SR again with builds that aren’t obvious contenders. Still, I’m not sure if I can do it, haven’t looked too closely at purifiers since FG aside from the noob guides.

Hey,nice build you make,I was interesting to see how it looks?Btw did you manage to read my PM about the build before database went down?My idea was exactly dual Ludrigan instead of Electrolis,but Cindertouch and Ultos shoulders with more points in storm touched for attack speed.

Nice build ya_. What do you think of doing a pure WPS ludrigan vindicator?

@x1x2 and ya_: challenge accepted as well

Tested RNGesus double lightning dagallon (maxed static strike). Not fast enough. Will do full WD next.

Pure wps is what I aimed for and looked good. With items like grip of hagarrad chilling rounds can hit hard. It is 4x hits with dw guns. Hard capped and modded is good

I think Nery made a druid but it was rolled back. Despite his efforts, the arcanist part of Ludrigan is weird. Irrelevant, I’d say. Like the demo part of LD was before the buffs to Stun Jacks.

No, I didn’t see your reply. I had Ultos and Cindertouch in mind but this would require some greens. And attack speed components and more greens for res.

Ultos shoulders are great. Probably BiS. I just couldn’t find a way to use them without losing too much elsewhere.

I suggest doing sth with the mortars.

Mad_Lee suggested Ultos shoulders, Crimson gloves and blue Beronath ammy for 24/26 Savagery. But You lose one totem and a bunch of attack speed by not going with LD gloves and second Ludrigan = need AS components = less res. And points for maxing WPS wont just magically appear either - you’d have to loose something. Oak Skin would be the first to go = less defense.

But I would love to see it. Post it here or PM me and if you don’t wanna make a separate thread I’ll add it to op here.

Hmm, totally using popsicle gloves for wps vindicator. Ultos shoulders are ofc bis

Arcanist. In testing panetti ludrigan used to have 550k dots akin to todays brimstone vanquisher. Idk how that build performs today

Have you tried max Box as damage source? Flat electrocute numbers there look very decent, and you could almost cap it (at least in Stormreaver build)

I was gonna ask if mortars are cheating :p.

I think you can do it with infernal knight +2 sigils ?

Alright, alright… Added to op: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/62a9L8E2 :stuck_out_tongue:

I don’t know. It’s less than 300/s. For a horseload of points that aren’t there…

I don’t have monopoly on hybrids, you know :wink: But seriously, I’ve been waiting for a good mortar purifier since Spanks’ shieldbreaker.