ye, but those have measly 10% casting speed and shitty stats.
Think of it this way, with better rolls, it hits the same level of CS as HoS. So what those gloves really do is get you 12% CDR without losing CS
Fair point. 
Whilst I obviously use it (is there a theorycrafter out there that doesn’t, nowadays? Have you ever crafted a relic legitimately during the last few years – let alone like, six of them, to get the desired completion bonus? It is madness), I would prefer to keep at least the appearance of attainability, here 
So; anyone have an idea that doesn’t include crazy MI rolls?
Edit: I actually included Voidrend Talons in my first theorycraft but quickly gave up on them in favor of supermaxed RE…
Could 2x Sigil of the Deprived be worth it? We do lose 5% CS with that change again, though 
Always worth testing of course. Min-maxing never stops.
There’s a blue medal which gives +2 to RE. But you lose the skill modifier.
You can also give up last three nodes of wendigo (not a big fan of it, personally) for jackal
Nice idea! More physres always helps, too. And it also gives movement speed 
god this build moves slowly atm…
Try investing one point into RE’s third node too. Should help speed up clearing trash mobs.
EDIT: If you want, you can also give up fiend for hawk + 2 nodes into spider.
With jackal, you should have compensated for the CS loss.
2nd EDIT: this might make sense with PoT3, since you lose out on some fire/acid conversion.
I don’t think so. While the -15% RR is single target, it’s quite important when facing down nems, IMO.
But like lee said - you gotta test it.
What korsar does is use 3x dummy kills as a means of testing DPS. It’s pretty reliable IMO.
What are your thoughts on Rebuke (PoV node) btw.? I recently moved the one point from it to haven because I figured the extra leech would probably be better, but I’m not sure about the importance of those sec res bonuses…
Not sure about this one. RE is an awesome proc machine & even with only ~75% conversion that devo felt pretty strong during PoT testing (really just a feeling, however).
On the other hand, x1 did use Magi instead of Fiend on his original setup; and that devo does have CS
But fire>acid conversion also hurts that one more than Fiend, so…
Edit:
Do you just kill it three times without taking a break? Or do you wait until debuffs etc. run out/stuff despawns after each one?
On such uncertain things, I think the pilot would know best. So if you feel it’s better, it probably is.
There are also 2 blue pants with + points to RE - https://www.grimtools.com/calc/RZRO45PN, but they have shite stats.
As for the dummy kills, I’m not sure what korsar does, but I personally go at it back2back. I even continue to attack it during that ‘invulnerable’ stage. I think it’s a more reliable imitation of what actually happens in the crucible.
As for rebuke…I don’t think it’s great unless you’re having issues with reflect.
Man, killing dummies takes forever on a Spectral Wrath build 
Just did a very quick test of Full Wendigo (24secs) vs. Jackal (25 secs) devo before calling it off for today.
Not sure if the 1sec difference is just variance or if the proc+the %vit dmg actually outvalue the CS…
Maybe I’ll just have to go for the full 200% CS setup to get clearer results tomorrow.
Alright @mad_lee @sir_spanksalot, I did a little more dummy killing.
My results:
- HoS (196% CS): ~24 secs.
- PoT (184% CS): ~25,34 secs.
- PoT (197% CS): ~27,6 secs (probably due to a loss of ~200 OA; +to RE items suck).
So I guess my/our logical fallacy was to assume that the deciding factor would be CS, whilst it was the harmful conversion of PoT all along (uncertainties about the conversion process with %ele>vit as part of the equation probably didn’t help with that).
Does anyone have an idea how the whole conversion process actually goes down, now? 
Because I also tested HoS+Darkflame Chestguard which did give me another ~350 vit dmg according to the tooltip…
Edit: dummy kill time didn’t really change with Darkflame btw, probably because of OA & chaos>vit still being relevant
Your tooltip DID show acid damage in your PoT3 version, so it was definitely screwing with your conversions.
Korsar made a super useful image detailing the order of conversion, but it got lost when things got ported over to the new forum.
Conversion on Equipment and Buffs > Equipment, Auras and Passives...what does it actually mean?
This was the post where the vets clarified a lot of my questions. Might be useful.
EDIT: found the image - https://images.vfl.ru/ii/1525283771/ededce19/21590161.png
2nd edit: As a frame of reference, this is the order of conversion as listed by the official game site -
The order of events for Conversion is as follows: Base Skill > Skill Modifiers > Conversion on the Skill or Transmuter > Conversion on Equipment and Buffs > Equipment, Auras and Passives
In other words, both PoT3 and your fire/vit conversion from your equipment is occuring at the same ‘level’ in the order of operations for conversion.
So my initial guess was right - you’re forcing your total vit damage to enter a weighted pool very much so similar to how WPS works.
^Not being rude, but do you need me to clarify this?
With Skill Mods + transmuter conversion having equal authority, right?
Thank you! That is very good info 
Possibly. And I would never think of you as being rude or condescending – I love your guides & stuff!
[Warning: humongous essay ahead ]
My remaining issue: due to how my tooltip dmg behaves when I equip Darkflame Chestguard, the whole Ele>X conversion thing is still a bit unclear even with your above info, right?
Because technically I have 100%+ fire>vit conversion with belt+offhand (+good rolls) if ele>X & fire>X conversion would just combine that way. Which, according to multiple sources, e.g. mad_lee further up in this thread, malawiglenn’s guide on game mechanics and my tooltip, they apparently do not (even though they both classify as ‘Conversion on Equipment and Buffs’ as stated in your ‘order of events’-line.
Quote from
malawiglenn’s answer to my question of ‘how does it work, then?’ seems to be this:
So what I thought would happen in this case is that first, ~50% of my fire dmg would be converted to vit via the belt and then the remaining 50% fire would be treated as a virtual 100% again – at least from the perspective of the fire>vit conversion on my offhand – leaving me with a total of ~75% fire dealt as vit (0.5 + 0.5 x 0.5).
Furthermore, if this is taken to be correct, the only thing the fire>acid conversion on PoT had to compete with would be the aforementioned virtual 100% fire remaining after ele>vit conversion (thus basically turning PoT’s conversion into a mere ~25% fire>acid, leaving us basically without any real harm to overall dmg.
Which is, based on my recent testing, clearly wrong.
So my findings of
- fire>acid conversion on PoT hurts dmg here and
- +35% fire>vit from Darkflame Chestguard still benefits us anyways
are what really boggle my mind atm…
And thus my question still remains: how does it really work, then?
I believe that the order of item equipping makes a difference when you have both a single type and elemental-> conversion. Call it a feature. It’s rarely an issue, but might be in your case. Irrc the first equipped = first conversion.
And yes, elemental and individual is multiplicative, not additive.
PoT is global, so it would go at the same step as any equipment globals.
So you’re saying that belt+offhand amount to ~75% conversion which then, kind of as one block, competes with PoT in a weighted contest?
yes. Note elemental has its own step at each level and what I was saying is that order can be determined by item equip in certain cases.
^this is why elemental ends up as multiplicative.
Ok. I believe the best explanations are the ones kids can understand, so…that’s my preface for what I’m about to write.
Forget percentages for a second. Think of them as…marbles.
50% fire/vit conversion = 50 fire marbles --> Vit marbles.
So if I have 100 fire marbles being converted to vit, and 100 fire marbles being converted to acid, I must have a total of 200 fire marbles to begin with.
Out of my original 200 fire marbles, I’ll therefore end up with 100 fire, and 100 acid.
Returning back to percentages, and since 100/200 = 50%, having these 2 conversion values interplay will ultimately result in…
i. 50% fire --> vit conversion
ii. 50% fire --> acid conversion
Regarding elemental conversion…elemental conversion works kinda strangely, and is actually a hidden operator in the order of conversions.
I can’t think of a way to explain this away using marbles, so I’ll just give it to you raw.
Assume that I have:
- 100 fire damage
- 50% ele --> vit conversion (call this “a”)
- 50% fire --> vit conversion (call this “b”)
Step A will first convert 50% of my 100 fire damage to vit. So I’ll have 50 fire, and 50 vit.
Step B will then occur separately and independently to step A. This means that 50% of my remaining 50 fire damage gets converted to vit.
Ultimately, this translates to a net total of 75 fire damage, and 25 vit.
All single type conversions of the same step are weighted. Elemental has its own step in there. So your basics are correct.
Re: the feature. Crate may have fixed this by now (it was reported a few times). But if not, then if you equip the single conversion items first, then you should see that result iirc. Otherwise elemental will convert some first, then the singles will divide the rest of the fire.