[1.1.9.0] The Scion of Crimson Wakes - Bleed Eye of Reckoning Archon SR 65, Crucible Gladiator 150-170 (3 buffs + 1 Vanguard and 3 Storm banners)

[teppieteptep]

Is Bleed EoR viable now? Not quite.

I’ve been recently reading around the forums on Bleed builds since I’ve never played one, and the general consensus is: Bleed and Eye of Reckoning don’t fit together. @Rhylthar also gave feedback about the Mythical Scion of Crimson wakes here: [Feedback] Some thoughts about Mythical Scion of Crimson Wakes, which I agree. I was really curious about how this weapon would work with the intended use of EoR, and this build came to life:

Grim Tools link (original)

Grim Tools link v2 (current setup)

Pros:

1. You get to play the worst damage type for EoR
2. A whopping -125% total Bleed Resistance Reduction
3. You get to see 6-digit Bleed ticks (highest I’ve seen so far is around 500k on Valdaran in SR 65-66)
4. It looks cool

Cons:

1. You get to play the worst damage type for EoR
2. Very low health sustain even with 23% lifesteal (you rely on Wendigo Totem and health pots)
3. Really just a meme build imo

in-game stats, all toggle buffs and standing near Wendigo Totem

Devotions are taken from Boatman of Styx — Bleeding Warder, CR <6m [g3][sr+][c+][vid] with a change from Kraken to nodes in Berserker.

Performance:

vs Alkamos (high bleed res monster test)

vs Morgoneth

SR 65 Boss room

vs Lokarr

vs Mad Queen

Crucible Gladiator 150-170 (3 buffs + 1 Vanguard and 3 Storm banners)

Final Thoughts and Feedback:

I am really surprised that this build can even clear SR 65-66. As there is no armor/item set support for Bleed EoR, this is more of a proof-of-concept that it can be played, but not up to par with other EoR variants.

[Mondaqueras]

Hello. I also tried Bleed EoR, here’s my GT https://www.grimtools.com/calc/Q2z8JGkZ

I decided to go with Bloodrager set. Shattered realm set looks like a good alternative though.

When it comes to devotions, I replaced Mogdrogen and went for Oleron to make up for the lack of weapon dmg of EoR, additionally, Blind Fury has good Bleed dmg itself (which is not scaled down by low weapon damage from EoR, as opposed to flat bleeding added to weapon from mogdrogen), I also could get Living Shadows as bloody companions.
I also have Tip the Scales for passive flat RR while spinning and Mark of Assasin since our EoR also deals physical and a bit of pierce (from rings conversion).

I tried Primal Bond as Exclusive skill but then changed to Divine Mandate for Crit dmg (it’s a DoT build after all) and also because since I had already gone too deep into Oathkeeper for Celestial Presence, might as well.

I’m gonna try Massacre and also change the gloves to yours.

Thank you for not giving up on the idea of Bleed EoR. I hope my build can give you ideas on how to further improve yours, if possible.

[teppieteptep]

Interesting, I’ll try out your devotion setup and some skill suggestions.

[teppieteptep]

Update:

• Added v2 Grimtools based on @Mondaqueras’s build: copied devotions and changed belt. Minor adjustments to skills. Build feels sturdier and deals more consistent damage.

• Added Crucible video. Disclaimer: I do not run Crucible regularly, please forgive the slow run and my bad piloting.

[Mondaqueras]

Awesome. If your resistances permit it, you could try 1 Seal of blades on main hand for bleed aura.

[hammyhamster1]

Did you try with Goredrinker set? It might have better sustain since it converts the EoR fire damage to piercing, which would increase both sustain and add a little damage.

[teppieteptep]

Awesome. If your resistances permit it, you could try 1 Seal of blades on main hand for bleed aura.

I forgot that the toggle is actually an aura, will try it out. Not sure if it’s worth the trade-off since you also lose the Physical Resistance from Seal of Might.

Did you try with Goredrinker set? It might have better sustain since it converts the EoR fire damage to piercing, which would increase both sustain and add a little damage.

I haven’t completed the Goredrinker set yet, could be good as well, but I’m going to use it for a different build. I doubt that it will increase sustain significantly to offset the defensive stats that the SR set gives, especially the Shatterguard proc.

[hammyhamster1]

Idk, but that extra sustain might mean that you don’t need the totems, which could make game play more fluid.

[Mondaqueras]

Not sure if it’s worth the trade-off since you also lose the Physical Resistance from Seal of Might.

The 8% armor compensates the 4% phys ress loss IMO.

[teppieteptep]

Idk, but that extra sustain might mean that you don’t need the totems, which could make game play more fluid.

Sample Grimtools of just switching to the Goredrinker set: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/wV1B7WmZ
I removed the points from Wendigo Totem and redistributed mostly to Oathkeeper side, maxed out Tectonic Shift since it’s supported by the set.

The main issue here is the CC resistances. 43% Stun res even with Ascension on, and it only goes up to 63% if I replace the ring components to Runebound Topaz. All other CC resistances are also lowered, which is bad since this is a melee channeling build. There’s also 12% Physical Resistance loss. I don’t see how this makes the gameplay more fluid if I will just get CC’d to death.

The 8% armor compensates the 4% phys ress loss IMO.

Will definitely test this out later, thanks for pointing it out.

[Mondaqueras]

Here’s a Goredrinker version https://www.grimtools.com/calc/YZe5DLvZ

Stormtitan Treads help with stun res and the proc helps with survival. The pants have 14% extra dmg to humans, but could be replaced with Reaper legguards (Of Vicious Barbs/of Kings) for extra stun res.

[Ulvar1]

proc helps with survival

EoR already has DR in soulfire

The 8% armor compensates the 4% phys ress loss IMO.

depends, on small hits yes, on big hits no/maybe

[hammyhamster1]

Sample Grimtools of just switching to the Goredrinker set: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/wV1B7WmZ
I removed the points from Wendigo Totem and redistributed mostly to Oathkeeper side, maxed out Tectonic Shift since it’s supported by the set.

The main issue here is the CC resistances. 43% Stun res even with Ascension on, and it only goes up to 63% if I replace the ring components to Runebound Topaz. All other CC resistances are also lowered, which is bad since this is a melee channeling build. There’s also 12% Physical Resistance loss. I don’t see how this makes the gameplay more fluid if I will just get CC’d to death.

I suppose if you were to compromise, you could try it towards this idea: Goredrinker with more CC

The advantage of the Eternal Band is that it is proactive RR vs the reactive RR of Tip the scales. Iirc, the RR has to be active before the DoT, to see the benefit. One on one… this isn’t an issue, but for packs, the Tip proc downtime could cause delays.

It also provides some disruption resist.

Idk if the loss of Tip will be an energy issue, though. Arcane Spark should cover the gap.

So this runs with 80% crit for theoretical big DoTs and has 29% physical resist. A good pair of Reaper pants with some OA would be better, but I think Barbaros will fill in OK.

Just some ideas in case you decide to give that set some tests when you find it. On a boss, VM should add a nice bit of bleed, as well.

I think your SR set build is quite nice. It’s just interesting to see someone test the variations.

[teppieteptep]

Interesting take on the Goredrinker setup. I’ll look into it.

Idk if the loss of Tip will be an energy issue, though. Arcane Spark should cover the gap.

Mana pots are more than enough to cover the energy sustain even with the original build without Scales of Ulcama, and yes Arcane Spark helps.

So this runs with 80% crit for theoretical big DoTs

I am still unsure about the exclusive choice between Primal Bond vs Divine Mandate. Primal Bond makes sense for a Bleed build, but both you and @Mondaqueras opt for Divine Mandate. Is the Crit Damage really that better compared to what Primal Bond gives?

[Mondaqueras]

I guess Divine Mandate is the more aggressive option. Crit dmg for bigger DoTs. You are just exchanging the bleed for trauma (which you also happen to scale to some extent and have RR for). You would have to test if the extra crit, by allowing more generous crit multipliers and thus the DoT potential, compensates the exchange. Slow res is nice too.

Primal Bond is just the safer option.

[hammyhamster1]

A (mostly) DoT build relies on landing the highest DoT from each single source/proc. %WD is considered a single source, iirc. And any further DoT application from that source is irrelevant until that highest number passes its duration. So there is a lot of time where you are only using the secondary non-DoT damage while that DoT goes to work. A pure DoT build would stack and try for crit, then just run away. Repeat on intervals.

That said, stuff always needs testing for play style and environment.

Let’s look at some numbers starting with the order of importance:

1. RR
2. regular damage (crit is unimportant if you don’t have much damage)
3. OA and crit multiplier

DoT = damage * Damage multiplier * RR muliplier * crit

For example’s sake I’ll generally use that GoreDrinker I posted for values:
121-%RR (Dev Swarm -61%, Celestial Pres -28%, rend -32%,)
10% Reduced (ring)
-10 reduced (ring)

Bleed damage ~2500% (easy number to work with)

Example DoT proc: Bleed on Eye of Reckoning and ignore %WD for simplicity as an example Bleed DoT --> 880/4 = 220/s

OA ~3100,
Monster DA = DA-~250 (Crushing Verdict)
Crit = 80%

A couple of monsters for comparison (from GT monster Database)
Alkamos 113% bleed resist, 2200 DA, 30% bleed reduction, 35% absorption@25%health
Grava 13% bleed resist 2350 DA

Alkamos
113% Resist + RR–> ~-19 Bleed Resist = 1.19 damage multiplier @ .0.7 duration
3100OA vs 1950DA = 25% crit chance ([email protected] crit, 12.5%@1.2 crit)
220 bleed/s * 2500% * 1.19 * 2 (1.2 from OA + 0.8 normal crit) ~ 13K bleed/s

Grava
13%Resist + RR–> ~-129 Bleed Resist = 2.29 multiplier
3100 vs 2100 DA = 21% crit chance (13%@1.1, 9%@1.2)
220 bleed/s * 2500% * 2.29 * 2 ~ 25K bleed/s

Obviously these are best case scenarios, ie, critting for 1.2x, getting a crit, all RR applied, etc, etc

BUT, take all the bleed sources and do the same, you get a huge stack! This is where the crit impacts. Another 50% more damage on that DoT is that much less time for the monster to die. This is particularly notable on high resistance monsters, assuming you took all RR.

Ymmv depending on play and other damage sources that are non-DoT.

Btw: Great references for calcs are tqFan’s:
crit calculator
RR comparison calculator

Edit: Mondaqueras summed it up, but I was in the mood to run some numbers.

[teppieteptep]

I guess Divine Mandate is the more aggressive option.

Now this makes more sense, will try it out.

Edit: Mondaqueras summed it up, but I was in the mood to run some numbers.

I’m amazed at the number crunch; I appreciate this since I’m a numbers person. I have no knowledge to the DoT stacking mechanics until I read this; I just took whatever item has Bleed and relevant bonuses to my build idea and checked if it actually worked.

I suppose the SR set + Primal Bond is the safe build and Goredrinker + Divine Mandate is the more aggressive approach. I’ll test it as soon as I get all Goredrinker pieces.

[zencmore]

i always fan of two handed weapons over one handed. for this reason i think Gutsmasher is better weapon for bleeding eye of reckoning.

[hammyhamster1]

I just took whatever item has Bleed and relevant bonuses to my build idea and checked if it actually worked

As I mentioned, %WD is a single source, so your method of grabbing everthing could put a large bleed on with Vampiric Shadows (340%WD) or just Vire’s might for >100%WD. Only the single largest bleed of the all the %WD sources would stack, but that source would be a big chunk of bleed.

One problem with original (ie, unconverted) EoR physical damage sustain is that enemy armor of some monsters can absorb big chunks of it. Some EoR physical will be absorbed and not provide sustain. An extreme example would be Iron Maiden with 3K armor, and then physical resist on top of that. Pierce only suffers resist.

i always fan of two handed weapons over one handed. for this reason i think Gutsmasher is better weapon for bleeding eye of reckoning.

Post a suggested build idea. I think teppieteptep is on the right track, yet he might be motivated to compare it.

2x Crimson seems better for a bleed focus. And Dev Swarm has been significantly improved in last patch.

Gutsmasher might be better for a mixed approach, but it is necessary to stack %WD adcth and/or grab some sustain devotions - which takes away from the bleed focus ( imho). With max. total 50%WD, all EoR %WD %adcth is effectively at 1/2 strength while spinning.

Best Gutsmasher bleed EoR mix that I could come up with uses the BloodRager’s set: Bloodrager Set Gutsmasher EoR

Epic Baldir’s Set was also an option Baldir’s Gutsmasher Physical/Bleed EoR Hybrid.. Though, I don’t know this would have enough end-game health sustain with only 6%adcth of %WD in spin, Health/DA is low, resistances are rather tight, and AS is low for a such a large ratio of non-DoT.

It might be necessary to drop Oleron and go Fox/Mog/Bat Baldir’s example or Ghoul/Wendigo/Revenant for more survivability.

(Gutsmasher seems better suited for a Savagery build with Bloodrager set)

I apologize if this went too far off-topic for Crimson Wakes.