Go for it, that’s why I have the linking system in the OP, so I can just add another peice to the thread and then link it, otherwise I’d have to reserve 10+ posts to get all the advanced mechanics in a row, and I didn’t want to do that.
PTH=-90/(1-CC)
PTH is still negative…
- Crowd-Control timing, particularly with regards to Knockdown: Knockdown usually makes enemies have a particular getting-up animation associated with the debuff; is the duration of this animation considered part of the duration of the knockdown, i.e., if I knockdown an enemy with a .3 second animation for 1.5 seconds, they’ll be knockeddown for 1.2 seconds and then display their animation for the full 1.5 seconds? Or, in the example described, is the .3 seconds added onto the 1.5 seconds of the knockdown debuff in terms of disable length?[/li][ul][li]Furthermore, is the getting-up animation standardized in length, or does it vary from enemy to enemy (barring knockdown resistance)?[/ul]
- Maybe discuss Order of Defense in general, and with regards to reflection? i.e., at what point is the reflection calculation done, before or after damage mitigation?
- It’s moderately well-known that flat statistic values on shields only affect abilities which use that shield; can the same be said for offhands? For instance, if I put a Mark of Dreeg on an offhand, does the offhand need to be used in a skill in order to take advantage of the acid damage/resist reduction?
I’ll post more as they come to me, which they do from time to time.
Caster offhands apply to the mainhand. A mark of dreeg on a weapon and a mark of dreeg on an offhand will stack additively.
It’s moderately well-known that flat statistic values on shields only affect abilities which use that shield; can the same be said for offhands? For instance, if I put a Mark of Dreeg on an offhand, does the offhand need to be used in a skill in order to take advantage of the acid damage/resist reduction?
I suppose damage of an offhand will be same as damage of a main weapon. But I forget did I test this.
This post is dedicated purely to the Weapon Pool System. This system governs when your character uses skills like Mutilate, Zolhan’s Technique, or Amarasta’s Quick Cut over their default attacks.
B26 H3
Terms Used:[ul][li]WPS - Weapon Pool System or Weapon Pool Skills, depending on context[/ul][/li]What skills add to the Weapon Pool?
Skills that say “n% Chance to be Used” can be added to the Weapon Pool System.
This includes all these skills or skills on these items:[ul][li]Nightblade:[list][]Belgothian Shears B[/li]
[li]Amarasta’s Quick Cut A[/li]
[li]Whirling Death W[/li]
[li]Execution E[/ul][]Soldier:[ul][]Markovian’s Advantage M[/li]
[li]Zolhan’s Technique Z[/ul][]Items:[ul][*]Brawler’s Gloves (Gloves)[/li]
[li]Notched Bone of a Thousand Deaths (1h Axe) (Above current level cap)[/li]
[li]Bladesworn Talisman (Relic)[/li]
[li]Bladedance’s Talisman (Relic)[/li]
[li]Blademaster’s Talisman (Relic) (Above current level cap)[/li]
[li]Marauder’s Ammo Belt (Belt) (Ranged)[/li]
[li]Gunslinger’s Talisman (Relic) (Ranged)[/li]
[li]Marauder’s Talisman (Relic) (Ranged)[/li]
[li]Plunderer’s’s Talisman (Relic) (Ranged) (Above current level cap)[/ul][/list][/li]This does not include skills that say one of these things:[ul][li]n% Chance on attacking (target self).[/li]
[li]n% Chance on attacking (target enemy).[/li]
[li]n% Chance on a critical attack (target self).[/li]
[li]n% Chance on a critical attack (target enemy).[/li]
[li]n% Chance when hit (target self).[/li]
[li]n% Chance when hit (target enemy).[/li]
[li]n% Chance when hit by a critical (target self).[/li]
[li]n% Chance when hit by a critical (target enemy).[/li]
[li]n% Chance when hit by a melee attack (target self).[/li]
[li]n% Chance when hit by a melee attack (target enemy).[/li]
[li]n% Chance on low health (target self).[/li]
[li]n% Chance on low health (target enemy).[/li]
[li]n% Chance on blocking (target self).[/li]
[li]n% Chance on blocking (target enemy).[/ul][/li]The Weapon Pool System
Recall that there is no such thing as percentage in Grim Dawn, everything is done by weights. So, when you equip an item or use a skill that adds to your WPS, what’s really happening is you’re adding weights to the Weapon Pool System. The game then rolls a die to decide whether you attack with a skill, or your default attack.
Pretty standard.
The system is the exact same whether you use a Ranged weapon or a Melee weapon.
Two Handed or One Handed + Shield/Focus
If we maxed out Markovian’s Advantage (25 weights), for instance, our WPS bar would look something like this (Each letter is 5 weights, let us denote a Default attack as “D”):
MMMMMDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
Duel Wielding
The only thing different about Duel Wielding is that you don’t have a default attack, you have three default attacks*:[ul][li]Left Hand Attack L (35)[/li]
[li]Right Hand Attack R (35)[/li]
[li]Both B (30)[/ul][/li]*I don’t know the weights for these, but for the purposes of explaining, I’m going to assume the numbers I put by them.
So a standard attack with nothing in your Weapon Pool would look like:
LLLLLLLRRRRRRRBBBBBB
If you add a Weapon Pool Skill, you take away equivalent amounts of the three different types of attacks. Here it is with a maxed Markovian’s Advantage (25 Weights):
MMMMMLLLLLRRRRRBBBBB
Notice that some default Left attacks, some default Right attacks, and some default Both attacks were removed from the Weapon Pool Skill.
Pretty Simple. Let’s say that we had more than 100 weights in our system:
MMMMMZZZZZBBBBAAAAWWWWEEEE
Then the engine would just roll a die with the range of 1 to the total number of weights in the system, in this case, 130.
Recap:The Weapon Pool System is pretty simple. Just remember that if you go over 100 Weights, then you dilute the pool. So if you prefer to have Execution occur the most, then max that skill out, and lower other skills until your WPS has 100 weights!
Charges (Cadence)
There is reason to believe that B27 changed information in this section. This information may be out of date.
The differing WPS skills add different charges to skills like Cadence. Here are the skills you can get from Nightblade and Soldier.
[ul][li]Melee DW:[list][*]MA hits with both weapons, only gives one charge to Cadence.[/li]
[li]ZT hits with one weapon, only gives one charge to Cadence.[/li]
[li]BS hits with both weapons, gives two charges to Cadence.[/li]
[li]AQC hits with both weapons, gives three charges to Cadence.[/li]
[li]WD hits with both weapons, gives one charge to Cadence. (I could be wrong here).[/ul][/li]
[li]Range DW:[ul][/li]
[li]MA hits with one weapon, only gives one charge to Cadence.[/li]
[li]ZT hits with one weapon, only gives one charge to Cadence.[/ul][/list][/li]
WPS Works with These Skills:
[ul][li]Fire Strike - Demolitionist[/li]
[li]Savagery - Shaman[/li]
[li]Troll Rage - Mistborn Talisman (Relic)[/li]
[li]Beronath’s Fury - Shard of Beronath (Melee Weapon Materia) (Not currently available)[/ul][/li]
Conclusion:
Most of this information comes from a quote from medierra where he describes a little bit of the system. So the credit goes to him.
Feel free to correct misinformation, suggest additions, or ask questions!
Might be worth mentioning that adding proc skills takes weights from L or R attacks, and thus exceeding (reaching?) 100% proc skills will remove all single L or R (press Z or R twice!) attacks. You’ve shown this graphically, but its not explicitly mentioned (except by medierra in the quote after the one you linked).
I’m also pretty sure your implementation of Markovian’s is wrong, unless I’m bad with math (which isn’t out of the question); oughtn’t the both-weapon-proc remain untouched by the introduction of another WPS, save for when exceeding 100%?
I’m sorry you had to go through that mess of BBCode just to find that quote. I edited in explicitly taking out default attacks.
Uh, it’s pretty easy to test. Fill your WPS with 80 weights, and then attack stuff. Do you still do Left and Right default attacks?
And like I mentioned, I don’t know the weight values for these basic attacks, so it could be that “both” just has 10 weights, and isn’t reduced until L=R=B. I don’t know.
If you find something in the game files, feel free to PM me that, and I’ll add it in. I couldn’t find anything.
Also, why must you use confusing contractions?! “oughtn’t” isn’t a word! 
Ah, yes. It’s in the line of should/could/would.
Why not just say “shouldn’t”? Is there a slight connotation difference I’m missing, or is it just dialect specific to different regions?
Ought & Should are interchangeable grammatically; Must is the one that has some particular details about its usage.
Regionally? Maybe. Despite being in the `states, I prefer English English rather than Americanized English; too hipster, I guess.
tl;dr we need an advanced mechanics of language thread. /sarcasm /pleaseno
I’ve been around inner-city regions my whole life (mostly Detroit and Miami). I prefer the more… uh… lower income style of talking than “Proper” American English. But I do my best not to reflect that in my posts.
You should hear me talk though, it’s appearently interesting to hear a white guy say these words without the typical accent associated with them.
Call to Action: I am looking for linguists to MAKE THIS HAPPEN.
Well then, do I have the treat for you. I’m just waiting for the ok from the Devs to make public a small bit of information from the game files, and then I’ll write up the post explaining it. (Edited, of course, depending on whether they say yes or no.) 
that’s cheating…
Lawl, I impirically dervived everything but one number, thank you very much.
This post is dedicated purely to Armor and how it works.
B27 H0
Terms Used:[ul][li]AA - Armor Absorption - A percentage value that is on each armor slot. Depending on whether damage incoming is either higher or lower than the armor, then this stat is used to determine whether all of the damage is reduced by Armor Absorption, or just a portion.[/li]
[li]DAA - Default Armor Absorption - Currently set to 70% or .7[/li]
[li]IAA - Increased Armor Absorption - The amount of Armor Absorption increased from the “Armor Absorption by x%” stat.[/li]
[li]A - Armor (Armor Rating) - The amount of Armor given on a slot. When found on Char I sheet, it is an average of average found on all slots, plus the armor on slots that cannot be hit.[/li]
[li]PhysDam - Physical Damage - Incoming Physical Damage[/ul][/li]Formulas Used:
If incoming damage is less than armor: (PhysDam*(1-AA)) = Damage Taken
If incoming damage is more than armor: (A*(1-AA))+(PhysDam-A) = Damage Taken
Local and Global Slots
[spoiler]These slots are Local, and have their own Armor and “Increases Armor Absorption by x%”. Their Chance to Hit Area values are also given.
[ul][li]Head: 15%[/li]
[li]Shoulders: 15%[/li]
[li]Chest: 26%[/li]
[li]Arms: 12%[/li]
[li]Legs: 20%[/li]
[li]Feet: 12%[/ul][/li]These slots cannot be hit, and are Global. They instead add their Armor and “Increases Armor Absorption by x%” to all slots:
[ul][li]Rings [/li]
[li]Necklace[/li]
[li]Weapon[/li]
[li]Offhand[/li]
[li]Relic[/li]
[li]Belt[/li]
[li]Medal[/ul][/spoiler][/li]
Armor Absorption
Once an attack that has Physical Damage is given, the game decides which piece of armor is hit. The game does this through weights, and the weights can be seen in the “Local and Global Slots” section. There then exists two scenarios, where incoming physical damage is below or equal to your armor rating on the chosen slot, or it is above.
Incoming Physical Damage is Below or Equal to Armor Rating
When incoming damage is below or equal the Armor Rating of a slot, the armor is allowed to absorb only your armor absorption value of the damage, the rest goes through.
So if I have 100 armor in the chosen Armor slot, and the default 70 Armor Absorption, and 60 Physical Damage is coming:
(PhysDam*(1-AA)) = 60*(1-.7) = 18 Physical Damage taken.
Notice that your armor value doesn’t really matter in this equation, so long as you have more armor than the damage, you will take 30% of the damage.
Incoming Physical Damage is Above Armor Rating
When incoming damage is above the Armor Rating of a slot, that armor is allowed to absorb only your armor absorption value of the damage, the rest goes through.
So, if I have 500 armor, and the default 70 Armor Absorption, and 1000 Physical Damage is coming:
(A*(1-AA))+(PhysDam-A) = 500*(1-.7) + (1000 - 500) = 150 + 500 = 650.
Notice that 30% of the incoming damage (150) slipped through your Armor.
Physical Resistance
Physical Reisistance is applied after armor calculations are done. So if you had 150 physical damage after applying armor, and you had 8% Physical Resistance, you would then use the normal formula to figure out how much Physical Damage you would take:
(Damage*(1-Resistance) = Damage Taken
(150*(1-.08) = 138 Physical Damage Taken.
Armor Absorption Stacking
The way Armor Absorption is stacked is from Increases “Armor Absorption by x%” on affixes like Rugged. It stacks like this:
DAA * (1+(IAA+IAA+…))
So, if we had 5% increased armor absorption on our boots, and 8% on our shield, the equation would look like this:
.70*(1+(.05+.08))= .791 or 79.1%
As noted by eisprinzessin, the only global slot that can currently have IAA is a shield. Every other slot that can have IAA is a local slot, which means that the IAA value on that slot can only effect that slot. Scars of Battle (a Soldier Passive) can increase global Armor Absorption by 25% at 8/8 or 35% at 18/10.
Conclusion:
I started “researching” this because medierra recently made an armor statement that disagreed with how the Game Guide at the time said it worked (it has since been fixed). I then asked Ceno and Ninetrix how Armor worked, and they both described it different to how the Game Guide described it at the time, however, in testing it was evident that armor worked in a different way. So then I put a thread on the No Reply forum basically saying WTF CRATE, but in a nicer way and medierra spilled the beans on how armor works. So all the credit goes to him, despite Ceno and Ninetrix trying to tell me otherwise. Tsk. Tsk.
There may exist a better way to detail the formulas, but I choose the way I did simply because that is how medierra showed me it, and I wanted to emulate that style, and not risk losing any information.
Feel free to correct misinformation, suggest additions, or ask questions!
Great post about armor.
(AAA)+(PhysDam-A) = 500(1-.7) + (1000 - 500) = 150 + 500 = 650.
Should be (A*(1-AA))+(PhysDam-A) = 500*(1-.7) + (1000 - 500) = 150 + 500 = 650.
Whoops, thanks!
I still think armor is unnecessarily complicated, between the ancient design of chance to hit a specific body part and that body part having its own armor, to the arcane calculation of armor absorption that you can’t quickly determine in-game.
I disagree with you, I think the armor formula is absolutely brilliant.
I agree that Armor Absorption should be a stat that you can find when you hover over your “Armor Rating” value.
Rather than write a new post, I’m just going to quote from my feedback on the no-reply thread regarding the armor formula saying why I think it is very very good. Just note that some of the information may be wrong in there.