I love people still refusing to learn how to deal with arcane heroes. Their counter is clearly to iwanttospeaktoyourmanager them away.
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Karen (after getting nulled): “I want to speak to the Nemesis of this faction”
Grava: “I AM the nemesis”
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Couldn’t help myself.
So @the don’t get hit crowd:
Those who have posted guides on builds (you know who you are) better start posting builds with 2k DA tops with -50% all res, no circuit breakers, full dps devo paths and dps attribute dumps with SR 75+ clears and sub 5 CR because after all you not getting hit right? Who needs res or armor. You should be able to /avoid everything right?
Stupid argument right?
Somethings to keep in mind before bashing people who can’t lol “ghet gud brah” when it comes to arcane mobs:
Maybe they don’t have good reflexes or are playing with bad hand injuries
Maybe their FPS sucks or they are playing on a sub optimal rig
Maybe their eyes have issues and can’t track as much as you or can’t see the colors as well.
Maybe what they though wasn’t an arcane mob was. There are a few heros that do look like arcane and are not.
Maybe they don’t play CR where you lol at arcane mobs
Maybe they aren’t complaining about them in the main campaign setting
Just maybe…maybe they have a hard time seeing the projectile in the trillions of sprites on the screen while in a hoard of champions plus nemesis surrounded by unkillable traps.
At the end of the day of the arcane mob was constantly causing you to get +30 secs or even 1 minute in your CR times in a patch tomorrow the pitch forks would be far worse then the one person coming here…
I understand arcane mobs, I see their value in a world where the only way to challenge the player is to throw the entire world at them…however that doesn’t make it “fun” for everyone. I view them like high res healing mobs and people come to the forum like ravenous lunatics complaining about them. What’s the difference? In the end the high res healing mobs are not “fun” either.
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also possible some of them are just complaining for complaining sakes? 
i’m not gonna dismiss that some people’s complaints could stem from some such issue you are raising
i would also partially assume if one was held back by any such issue, that it would cause additional cautiousness, and to be more careful, like disengaging just as a precaution, more than a “give heck”+auto pilot mode
i am gonna dismiss it as complaining out of laziness/whining for things to be unnecessarily easier; when the argument is there is no counterplay, because that is straight up bullshitting
(i’m personally of the opinion Arcane’s/Grava’s Nullification effects, should be enabled in Cruci, not Lox tho, i think it’s a silly thing just because of a speed theme to get that freebie, but don’t tell anyone i’m that crazy 
)
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Actually this point didn’t need defending, ‘bad design’ is irrelevant to player skill.
I have killed Grava thul in SR90 hardcore and with 75% physical resistance and 2500 passive health regen it wasn’t even hard, the character had to perform much more acrobatics to kill salazin, the shattered blade who happened to be in the same bossroom. Since salazin did such a crapload of damage much more of his spells had to be dodged by player movement.
Since I do not use the keyboard when playing the game, having an arcane mixed in a crowd of 4 heroes and 30 mobs causes severe disruption of the game flow. The developer has already admitted to this by removing nullification from the crucible and refuses to do so for SR and campaign without any good reason.
Since most of the popular auras in the game provide HP, Hregen, OA, DA, armor and %dmg. An arcane projectile could simply be changed to severely nerf all these stats instead. The only difference now an icon appears on the debuff side of the screen, instead of the buff side, while the challenge is still exactly the same as it was.
In addition currently creative builds with huge amount of auras are cruelly affected by this, while builds with very few auras are still not getting any challenge. Furthermore this allows having it in crucible as well.
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@Gnomish_Inquisition totally right about the complaining for the sake of. Which may be very true. I am unsure as to the circumstances behind someone coming here to vent after an experience.
@gargabolo I don’t really view arcane mobs as “bad design.” Others might that’s up to them. Your points are good and well taken.
As mediocre as LPS is viewed, arcane mobs and stutter step piloting with a balance of damage leaned more towards the passive variety and the before mentioned LPS is what I moved to in order to solve the the issue arcane mobs pose in 65+ SR in those obscenely crowded rooms and effects blasted rooms.
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feel like i need to point out that my entire point, and “highlights” in souls-elitism mentions was that; specifically that Arcanes is not a “git gud”/skill check enemy/situation, because the methods of dealing with them are so simple
anyways the main part of this post:
could it be/should it be that Arcane enemies (nullification) was an “accessibility” toggle in game settings, like we have tritanopia etc?
(no idea how Crate would respond to that notion - if possible at all)
best of both worlds? people held back, or just not liking them, would get the gameplay mode they feel is acceptable, and the rest of us “masochists” would feel little difference 
or like, have global hardmod that just disables all arcane’s nullification maybe? @tqFan is that something that might be possible?
Yes, I’ve already done it for purple balls.
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Ok, so… it is no secret that I quite often criticize Grim Dawn whether or not others feel that the criticism is warranted. But…
Now, I agree that getting stripped of all your buffs because you got hit by a random projectile which you couldn’t see or dodge in time is not exactly fun. No arguments there, atleast not from me.
However, to offer a different perspective to the “challenge” or “difficulty” posed by the mechanic, currently it works by simply stripping you of your buffs and doesn’t do anything else.
It does not make them go on cooldown or prevent you from re activating them for X amount of seconds or anything of that sort. So, provided you don’t get bursted down immediately after the nullification, and provided you actually realize that you got nullified, all you need to do is simply reactivate all your buffs in time or in other words, switch your quickslot bar > pres 1 to 0 or whatever > swap back > and you are good to go.
If it was a debuff or simply disabled/froze your debuffs for a duration, you won’t be able to do anything about it other than try to survive for said duration. There would be no way to re-activate your buffs before the timer finishes. That would be worse and actually end up providing even less “counter play” since if you get hit by the projectile, that is it. Unless ofcourse, a new feature gets introduced along with it that provides Resistance to Nullification just like we have for CCs.
So, while I understand Arcane mobs not being fun and their design feeling like badly done, it is far less punishing that it could have been and we should stop giving Zantai all these ideas to make things even worse because he sustains on players’ tears as we all know.
Ofcourse, there is one “solution” and that would be to simply remove the mechanic except in unique cases like Grava. But, if we are going down that route because something happens to be annoying, there is a whole list of things which would fit in that same category. For example, in the context of SR, I have yet to die to Arcane mobs, but I have died far more times than I would be willing to admit, to invincible traps in Deadman’s Gulch, Steps of Torment, etc themed SR maps simply due to them getting packed tightly together and there being no way to go around them.
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Actually if it was a debuff, then nullification & ulo would be the counterplay. Also X amount of seconds is much fairer punishment in any case because right now the amount of punishment depends on the following factors:
-the players control scheme.
-how many aura’s a build uses.
-if those aura’s use animations.
Not hard to see this as a design flaw, since none of those are supposed to affect the game difficulty.
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@Maya is right. The only counter argument I would have there is that it would be easier to just concentrate on running for x secs or what ever than trying to run while manually putting everything back up which might actually take longer than a debuff duration depending on circumstances.
In other news, DOWN with SR unkillable traps!!! /pitchforkssssssss!!!17261!!!@&$
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this one i can easily agree on 
Nullification is only available to Arcanists. So, that doesn’t count.
Not all devotion setups/paths can afford to take Ulo.
So, my counter argument would be that simply avoiding the projectile or toggling you buffs back on without having to wait to do so is more of a “counter play” than either of those.
I am not exactly quick with my reflexes or even the simple task of pressing buttons. But it takes like 3 seconds for me to swap > 1 to 0 > swap back.
Granted, some might be slower/faster with such stuff and as noted in an earlier post by Shadowpast, a number of factors contribute to the overall experience (playing with a controller, low fps, injuries etc).
But I would still argue that the player has more “control” over the “issue” atm when compared to the debuff “solution”
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it could be made into a pseudo debuff that’s actually a buff, like chains of anguish does - this way nulli/ulo can’t affect it
sad thing is, the way Maya suggested Nulli could be worse is how i wished it was ingame, because then it would actually make sense as a punishment 
as to the toggling,
i think it depends on more the control scheme than amount of auras and their animations
in the early days when i was eating nulli orbs i had characters with 2 hotbars fully filled with skills, using like 12 buffs or something stupid, and i still managed to toggle them on when running; i’m however also playing using keyboard, so just facerolling a row of buttons is fairly simple for me
Tbh, I would +1 that change.
But…I would also +1 Arcane mobs nullifying in Crucible 
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16:05
Didn’t got hit a single time, and it’s x2.0 in-game speed. You guys just need to git gud. You can also explode them on environment obstacles, same applies to Arcanes. Little hint - just saying, use environment to take advantage too.
Yeah but no one gets hit by grava null unless they get Cc’d and his tell is huge, this is more sneaky arcane ninjas hiding in 30 mob packs (fwiw I’m pro arcane but would love to see a more noticable tell in packed situations)
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I think that maybe this is more gear dependant then. I play on highest setting in the game, and x64. This clearly makes a difference in being able to more likely notice stuff even in a crowd of mobs.
If you want a cheaper solution Grim Internals mod, which is just an on-top of game overlay(I’m using it too) has an option to toggle hero mobs having their affix written next to their name after a “~”. There is usually lots of mobs in the crowd, but only a few heroes usually, so it definately makes life easier too. I don’t recall arcanes usually ever bombard you with their dispells instantly when they spot you tho, there is always some room to breathe prior to get them noticed.
/facepalm…
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The issue is that it’d then seem as though to come out of nowhere and incite even more confusion and disarray than we’ve got now.
I like the idea in principle, and I mostly agree. Pre-Ashes, only Loxmere could nullify players and in many regards it was better that way as there was some predictability for it for veterans. But for new players, Loxmere was quite a shock (until they moved Lox into his own little corner in Plains of Strife).
I do wonder whether it’d be better if Arcanes spawned in the base game, rather than only in expansion content, to give players the ability to learn about them sooner. When you’ve only got one buff to toggle on your way to fighting Krieg, getting nully’d wouldn’t be a big deal, but it’d help you learn and prepare for later.
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