Backer Rewards and DRM-Free Copy

[bryanw1995]

I’m sorry the DRM-free version isn’t concurrent with release. It isn’t an after-though and, indeed quite a bit of time has been spent already talking about how to distribute it and working toward various options.

I’ve actually been in discussion with and going back and forth over the distribution contract with GoG for, no exaggeration, a year. I think it’s gone back and forth 7-8 times to iron out all the details. I thought it would be signed in Nov, then Dec, but, as it turns out, it’s still not signed. Most recently it’s been issues like, in Jan they wanted us to launch on their early access program and at points to commit to include features for GoG Galaxy but each time I got the updated contract, I felt that the delivery dates written into it were so close I was not sure we could meet them, so I had to decline. I had expected a simultaneous launch on GoG and they were pushing for that but we kept getting hung up on deliverable timing issues and it was drawn out due to slow turn-around on my part because I’ve been so overwhelmed with development work.

The latest though is that they’ve agreed to scrap all the deadlines and extraneous commitments so we can just forge ahead and get this done. Completing that is one of my top priorities now with release out of the way.

If things had gone more according to plan, we would have been ready to release Grim Dawn in late January or the beginning of February. Then would have spent a couple weeks prior to actually releasing it getting the virtual goods and DRM-free distribution set up, among other things.

As things went though, it took longer than expected, partially because of our last minute effort to improve the Burrwitch Ourtskirts and Arkovian Ruins environments, which require a bunch of my time for level work. There were lot of other things that came up to absorb my time, just in preparing for release.

In the end, I wasn’t sure we were going to make February. I had previously wanted to have all the reward distribution set up or release and, had we been able to offer the Patron / Legendary packages available on the website to people on Steam, that could have been extra revenue for us… but that just didn’t happen in time. After agonizing over it for a few days, I decided it was important to make our February release date and that the game shouldn’t be delayed. So, I realize this is not ideal for everyone and I apologize that we didn’t do better but I wouldn’t say it was from lack of caring.

I just went back and reread this. It’s very enlightening when you look at the direction that this thread has taken. Apparently, the GoG guys have been trying to strongarm Medierra instead of just letting him put the game up there. Now, when that hasn’t worked, they’ve resorted to getting their users to spam the GD forums with veiled threats and insults. Heck, these are all new users, they might even be GoG employees. This is extremely bad form on GoG’s part, and it absolutely removes whatever residual sympathy I had remaining for the extremely vocal/whiny “drm free but only on GoG” crowd. If I was Medierra I’d be half of a mind to put the game out DRM-free using every method possible EXCEPT GoG, and tell GoG to go suck it.

[ibugsy]

I just went back and reread this. It’s very enlightening when you look at the direction that this thread has taken. Apparently, the GoG guys have been trying to strongarm Medierra instead of just letting him put the game up there. Now, when that hasn’t worked, they’ve resorted to getting their users to spam the GD forums with veiled threats and insults. Heck, these are all new users, they might even be GoG employees. This is extremely bad form on GoG’s part, and it absolutely removes whatever residual sympathy I had remaining for the extremely vocal/whiny “drm free but only on GoG” crowd. If I was Medierra I’d be half of a mind to put the game out DRM-free using every method possible EXCEPT GoG, and tell GoG to go suck it.

You’re reading way too much into his post.

My take is that it took time during contract negotiations that took longer than expected. That happens.

The point of contention is GOG wanting to set some expectations in terms of development goals. Considering they are touting their new “In Developmet” program as them doing some due diligence - is understanding.

Now, since Grim Dawn is complete, that issue is no longer an issue.

In terms of GOG sending people to create GD forum accounts and spam the forums with complaints - that goes into tin foil hat territory.

[bryanw1995]

You’re reading way too much into his post.

My take is that it took time during contract negotiations that took longer than expected. That happens.

The point of contention is GOG wanting to set some expectations in terms of development goals. Considering they are touting their new “In Developmet” program as them doing some due diligence - is understanding.

Now, since Grim Dawn is complete, that issue is no longer an issue.

In terms of GOG sending people to create GD forum accounts and spam the forums with complaints - that goes into tin foil hat territory.

Yeah, that’s probably going a bit too far…however, I just went back to read through all the anti-drm rhetoric in this thread. You can tell the “normal people” because they’re polite, one guy even listed numerous other games that he waited for a drm-free version. How is it that only the people posting in the GD forums expected their special version at exactly the same time as everybody else’s release? I eventually started compiling a quote from all of the aggressive/hateful posts, but by the end of page 2 it just got to be too much. Check out this gem:

It makes me sad that the attention makes you happy…but id rather you get it here than another mass shooting. Maybe admitting this embarassing fact on an internet video game forum will encourage to get yourself the help you need.

And you clearly didn’t read it because you ignored the lack of updates because it would have weakened your already weak argument. This is what people do when they know they have no argument and just crave attention.

I mean, was that written by some dude who was just slightly peeved that he had to wait another week or 2 for a game, just like he did on the last 50 games that he had to get drm-free? Perhaps he just really really loves GoG, but that’s a pretty crazy thing to post in a gaming forum regardless. And the scary thing is, that post doesn’t really stand out from some of the hate and invective that have been dumped into this thread. It’s literally mind blowing to me.

I don’t know, perhaps I’m overreacting. It’s not my game, it’s not my company, Medierra and his guys can do whatever they want. I just know, based upon 30+ years of playing video games, that these guys are a good group and will do what they say. Perhaps the drm-free crowd has been burned too many times and don’t know much about Crate so they’re just assuming the worst.

[Brazilski]

[QUOTE=bryanw1995;344428]Apparently, the GoG guys have been trying to strongarm Medierra instead of just letting him put the game up there. (…) it absolutely removes whatever residual sympathy I had remaining for the extremely vocal/whiny “drm free but only on GoG” crowd. If I was Medierra I’d be half of a mind to put the game out DRM-free using every method possible EXCEPT GoG

In terms of GOG sending people to create GD forum accounts and spam the forums with complaints - that goes into tin foil hat territory. :D[/QUOTE]

Lol it does, but he does have a point that the voice of GoG crowd has been too strong.

We were/are promised a DRM free GD release. Humble qualifies as that perfectly fine, but apparently some people are not happy with that. That’s fine too, because that’s personal. However, by loud shouting some of those people have now turned it into “The DRM free people want specifically want GoG, and GoG only”, and that is a load of bollocks. I am waiting, and waiting patiently, for the DRM free release as well, but I couldn’t care less by what medium or service that is distributed, and I certainly don’t like how some present it as all of us, including myself, supposedly thinking of GoG as our lord and savior. GoG is fine, but so is anything else.

[ibugsy]

I don’t know, perhaps I’m overreacting. It’s not my game, it’s not my company, Medierra and his guys can do whatever they want. I just know, based upon 30+ years of playing video games, that these guys are a good group and will do what they say. Perhaps the drm-free crowd has been burned too many times and don’t know much about Crate so they’re just assuming the worst.

Well, all I can say is that some people are more prone to using total nuclear annihilation first, and then come up with a different plan second.

Crate has done a really good job with the Kickstarter/Early Access process and Grim Dawn is now released - with a few hiccups. What project doesn’t. Crate has also been open and transparent with their development process and apologizing for delays. They also have a plan and it’s being worked.

So, if you’ve been following the project for awhile, then you know that Crate will hold up to its promise of releasing a DRM-free version of the game. It’s just problems cropped up, they’ll get resolved, they always have.

[ibugsy]

Lol it does, but he does have a point that the voice of GoG crowd has been too strong.

We were/are promised a DRM free GD release. Humble qualifies as that perfectly fine, but apparently some people are not happy with that. That’s fine too, because that’s personal. However, by loud shouting some of those people have now turned it into “The DRM free people want specifically want GoG, and GoG only”, and that is a load of bollocks. I am waiting, and waiting patiently, for the DRM free release as well, but I couldn’t care less by what medium or service that is distributed, and I certainly don’t like how some present it as all of us, including myself, supposedly thinking of GoG as our lord and savior. GoG is fine, but so is anything else.

I look at it like the rabid wars we have with people regarding their operating systems: Windows, Mac, Linux. Some can get down right hardcore with it to the point of orthodoxy.

I doubt that GOG is hiring people to go onto forums and write venomous negative comments to generate business. I doubt its a viable marketing strategy.

Instead, I suspect its some young kids who don’t really know how to express their frustration with not having the DRM-free version ready to go in a more civilized manner.

[Brazilski]

I doubt its a viable marketing strategy.

That’s what you’d say about Trump’s campaign as well

All joking aside, you’re right though.

[system]

I look at it like the rabid wars we have with people regarding their operating systems: Windows, Mac, Linux. Some can get down right hardcore with it to the point of orthodoxy.

I doubt that GOG is hiring people to go onto forums and write venomous negative comments to generate business. I doubt its a viable marketing strategy.

Instead, I suspect its some young kids who don’t really know how to express their frustration with not having the DRM-free version ready to go in a more civilized manner.

I’m not a young kid, nor a GOG employee. I simply want my version of the game I paid for to be playable, and Crate handled the communication leading up to this beforehand badly. If there was any real possibility of the DRM-free version not coming out with the “final” release, they could have said something a hell of a lot sooner than three days before they released it, that would have reassured me at least, rather than trying to drill information out on the day of the release. The outdated FAQs mean that people had to try and piece together what happened from forum posts mainly. Also, broadly speaking, DRM-free versions have been neglected by other developers in many cases, so people get pretty worked up when something like this occurs.

[Vifarc]

I suspect its some young kids who don’t really know how to express their frustration with not having the DRM-free version ready to go in a more civilized manner.

Thank you for the age
But telling lies (Crate writing the game to be released too drm-free out of Steam at release) is already not civilised, so I feel some is in right to answer in the same mood, even it is not very wise for he does not controle the forum (banhammer?).
I somehow fear Crate being like some rogue russian internet company abusing consumers (ha the bad days of Starforce, and now Steam…).

[ibugsy]

Thank you for the age
But telling lies (Crate writing the game to be released too out of Steam at release) is already not civilised, so I feel some is in right to answer the same way, even it is not very wise for he does not controle the forum (banhammer?).

Please show where I’m lying.

[Ward]

Like was posted and was said before i am sure we will have the DRM free version from Humble before or on the 3rd, one week after the “offical” release, which is fantastic. Yes i want a GOG version but i don’t mind buying it again, this was NEVER a promise when we bought the game. It helps out crate to!
oh and since i don’t fit the model for a “rational” drm hater…um…oh yeah Death to STEAM!

honestly if it wasn’t for fallout 4 i would have it at all.

[system]

Easy, there were a ton of other pressing things to do as well. It’s also not like they did not talk to GOG, it just takes an unreasonable amount of time to get an agreement it seems

More pressing things to do for a game release than actually release it to everyone that backed them at the same time? What other pressing things besides for the ACTUAL RELEASING OF THE GAME did they have to do to RELEASE THE GAME?

[system]

Well, all I can say is that some people are more prone to using total nuclear annihilation first, and then come up with a different plan second.

Crate has done a really good job with the Kickstarter/Early Access process and Grim Dawn is now released - with a few hiccups. What project doesn’t. Crate has also been open and transparent with their development process and apologizing for delays. They also have a plan and it’s being worked.

So, if you’ve been following the project for awhile, then you know that Crate will hold up to its promise of releasing a DRM-free version of the game. It’s just problems cropped up, they’ll get resolved, they always have.

Only released to some of its backers, which I don’t count as released.

And “problems cropped up” is code for not being able to figure out how to release it as promised when they had 4 years to plan? 4 years just suddenly creeped up out of nowhere! They should have delayed for everyone until it could be released for everyone at once. If they couldn’t get it released together, then they have delayed it, period.

[system]

Yeah, that’s probably going a bit too far…however, I just went back to read through all the anti-drm rhetoric in this thread. You can tell the “normal people” because they’re polite, one guy even listed numerous other games that he waited for a drm-free version. How is it that only the people posting in the GD forums expected their special version at exactly the same time as everybody else’s release? I eventually started compiling a quote from all of the aggressive/hateful posts, but by the end of page 2 it just got to be too much. Check out this gem:

I mean, was that written by some dude who was just slightly peeved that he had to wait another week or 2 for a game, just like he did on the last 50 games that he had to get drm-free? Perhaps he just really really loves GoG, but that’s a pretty crazy thing to post in a gaming forum regardless. And the scary thing is, that post doesn’t really stand out from some of the hate and invective that have been dumped into this thread. It’s literally mind blowing to me.

I don’t know, perhaps I’m overreacting. It’s not my game, it’s not my company, Medierra and his guys can do whatever they want. I just know, based upon 30+ years of playing video games, that these guys are a good group and will do what they say. Perhaps the drm-free crowd has been burned too many times and don’t know much about Crate so they’re just assuming the worst.

" How is it that only the people posting in the GD forums expected their special version at exactly the same time as everybody else’s release?"

Because people backed being told that they would get a drm free copy. They weren’t told they’d get an inferior copy, after released for everyone else. They weren’t told that with 4 years to make a release, they couldn’t be bothered to release it for everyone at once. They prioritized some consumers over others. Not a priority to them. Wish I could get a refund.

Also, keep in mind “polite” is just in your eyes. It is judged by your personal opinion. Feel free not to use steam’s copy until the DRM free backers get theres, and don’t dare complain. Even so, other people would have the right to complain. It is bad business and extremely incompetent to release a product to just some backers.

What is mind blowing is that you think you are the one who decides what is ok and what is not. It is you who apparently has an opinion that means more than others and is the “right” one.

I have backed many games. Not ONE had a DRM free come after the fact. Every one had DRM free at release as promised. See what you did there? You completely fabricated evidence and then proceeded to use it as fact! Now, THAT is mindblowing!

The DRM free crowd were marketed to. If Crate couldn’t fulfill it at the same time as others, then it should have been delayed for everyone, or refunds should have been offered. I know I would take one. To make matters more of an insult, Crate doesn’t even KNOW what gog’s policy is for keys after a YEAR of “negotiations”!

Whether gog or not, they don’t have the game set up to be released and weren’t even sure how it’d be updated. To find it acceptable that they haven’t even figured this out after 4 years of preparation and yet, still released it to everyone else, is appalling.

[ibugsy]

And “problems cropped up” is code for not being able to figure out how to release it as promised when they had 4 years to plan? 4 years just suddenly creeped up out of nowhere! They should have delayed for everyone until it could be released for everyone at once. If they couldn’t get it released together, then they have delayed it, period.

Thought went into it. Problems do crop up, sometimes planned sometimes unplanned.

I’m sorry the DRM-free version isn’t concurrent with release. It isn’t an after-though and, indeed quite a bit of time has been spent already talking about how to distribute it and working toward various options.

I’ve actually been in discussion with and going back and forth over the distribution contract with GoG for, no exaggeration, a year. I think it’s gone back and forth 7-8 times to iron out all the details. I thought it would be signed in Nov, then Dec, but, as it turns out, it’s still not signed. Most recently it’s been issues like, in Jan they wanted us to launch on their early access program and at points to commit to include features for GoG Galaxy but each time I got the updated contract, I felt that the delivery dates written into it were so close I was not sure we could meet them, so I had to decline. I had expected a simultaneous launch on GoG and they were pushing for that but we kept getting hung up on deliverable timing issues and it was drawn out due to slow turn-around on my part because I’ve been so overwhelmed with development work.

The latest though is that they’ve agreed to scrap all the deadlines and extraneous commitments so we can just forge ahead and get this done. Completing that is one of my top priorities now with release out of the way.

If things had gone more according to plan, we would have been ready to release Grim Dawn in late January or the beginning of February. Then would have spent a couple weeks prior to actually releasing it getting the virtual goods and DRM-free distribution set up, among other things.

As things went though, it took longer than expected, partially because of our last minute effort to improve the Burrwitch Ourtskirts and Arkovian Ruins environments, which require a bunch of my time for level work. There were lot of other things that came up to absorb my time, just in preparing for release.

In the end, I wasn’t sure we were going to make February. I had previously wanted to have all the reward distribution set up or release and, had we been able to offer the Patron / Legendary packages available on the website to people on Steam, that could have been extra revenue for us… but that just didn’t happen in time. After agonizing over it for a few days, I decided it was important to make our February release date and that the game shouldn’t be delayed. So, I realize this is not ideal for everyone and I apologize that we didn’t do better but I wouldn’t say it was from lack of caring.

[mamba]

More pressing things to do for a game release than actually release it to everyone that backed them at the same time ?

yes, like fixing important errors, so you do not have them in the DRM free version as well - and as I said, they have been in talks for a long time, you cannot just blame Crate for it taking that long.

[mamba]

Only released to some of its backers, which I don’t count as released.

well, if according to you it is not released yet, you can stop your whining

They should have delayed for everyone until it could be released for everyone at once. If they couldn’t get it released together, then they have delayed it, period.

I do not have my backer items yet either, so ok, it is not released yet, good. How about we then simply wait for the release and consider B31 just another EA release… this constant whining is getting tiresome, you said your piece, you know it will be available at the end of this week or sooner, so not sure why you still drone on about this

[jiaco]

Looks like I picked a bad time for vacations, but I am back and have a suggestion, if you are ok with the current situation, stay out of the DRM threads. There is no need to keep replying. Pretty sure the people that are upset will remain upset until Crate gets this sorted.

[system]

All of these posts about the release of the DRM free version and I’m just over here awaiting some news on when i’ll get that sweet will o wisp…

[system]

Looks like the pirated version is out in advance of the DRM free one, with the 1.0.0.1 patch too boot. Pretty sad when illegal users can get something for free that paying customers are still waiting on after five years.