Even if we were distributing through our own website, there is absolutely no way we’d ever allow anyone to just click on a link and download the game without any login or installation key. While the installed game will be DRM-Free, this isn’t freeware that we want to make it overly easy for anyone to download from official sources. If that’s what you were hoping for, the best course would be to email support and request a refund, which we can offer via PayPal.
As mamba said, no it wasn’t. Because at the time of the Kickstarter Crate hadn’t even worked out how they were going to make the alpha/beta access available.
This from my printed copy of my Kickstarter pledge:
“Includes 1 Grim Dawn game key, with Alpha + Beta access”
No mention of Steam or any other system, sorry, because no decision had been made at the time. That only came later.
From the Kickstarter Project Update no 25 (14.05.2013):
"The initial alpha release will be distributed through Steam because that proved to be the easiest way to provide an exclusive alpha for backers and put out patches while we are still actively developing the game and fixing bugs. Other download options may be rolled out later depending on how long alpha lasts/what we are able to manage. We realise that some people have a hatred of Steam and hope that it wil not upset anyone excessively, but it was the fastest and best solution given the complexity of trying to set up our own authentication server due to the numerous different pre-Kickstarter/Kickstarter/post-Kickstarter reward tiers with different levels of access and numbers of keys, partnering with Humble Store to hand all the key distribution and not having given out keys that were uniquely tagged to each reward/game tier.
To be absolutely clear: there will still be a DRM-free, Steam-free final release for those who desire it, as we promised. However, if anyone just has an absolute aversion to Steam and does not want to participate, we will provide you with a full refund. To be fair though, we did say Alpha would be “exclusive” and did not say it would be DRM-free; but we also did not say it would be on Steam, as we had no idea at the time how we would actually release it. Up until recently, we were not even sure if we would be able to have the alpha on Steam for the people who wanted it, but it actually proved to be the easiest option for us when we started looking into it."
You bought via Kickstarter so you would have received that Project Update - so don’t lie about what you were told by Crate.
Again, thanks for the support but we can handle this - if you’re providing helpful information to other people, that’s great but please don’t get into disputes with other forum members / call people out because you disagree with them.
I’ve heard of GoG and, by all accounts I have seen and heard, they’re excellent. Not saying that humble is not good, as well, but I’d say that GoG is much better-known. The only even potential issue that I’ve ever had with GoG has been with certain individuals in this thread, though I can hardly complain about it. I’m living proof that you can sometimes be a bit TOO enthusiastic about something and piss people off with your posts.
Well, if GoG is good, then all the better.
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That’s pretty sweet. I have horrible internet connectivity where I am (use to have to download Minecraft FTB 4-6 times before I had a working copy); but I’ve never had a single problem getting files through torrents.
That’s even with multiple formats and file sizes or with another recent example taking an unfinished Utorrent download and resuming it from the deluge client.
I was pretty sure that last one was gonna break, spit garbage at me and force me to re-download; but it was smooth sailing.
Care! This means (or might confuse people) something along both Steam and GoG are DRM (!) or thus we could declare that both Steam and GoG are No-DRM if we say GoG isn’t!
Take a trip with me.
The year is 19XX. When I get big I want to have sportscars. For now I go to the shop to buy NFS III. The RL rights management before I get my product at home (the NFS game and the box) has nothing to do with the game. The distributor or seller has (as of yet) nothing to do with the rights to my game that I do not possess yet. There is a laser robotic thing at the door that prevents me of leaving with the NFS by making a loud noise it hurts my ears. This has nothing to do with NFS but I can’t play it. A big buff with security print on shirt watches me as I put my hands and grab the NFS. A woman counts the money savings that I got out from my piggy. She scrutinizes the bills like I try to fraud them. She finally removes the noise making thing that activates at the door limits hell maybe even the Ink splasher if I tried to open the NFS box to steal the CD-ROM. What is implied here is that all this is actually Electronic Arts protecting their rights to my final purchase that I do not own before passing through all those
challenges (false) or that all this should not exist for me to own the product totally because this means being trolled/blocked out of it/big brother over my shoulder etc. (false). End of time travel capsule.
OK now what you would like GoG to be is very bad for the “general” consumers even though it is easy to do. By understanding what I meant in the time travel description > the way GoG is does not make GD have any DRM as GoG does not attach itself to your product and only protects himself as in the past >> best buy has a electromagnegic sensor that alarms if the guy or gal forgot to disable the magic sticker on the DRM-free product.
So then >>> I go gog.cm >> I put my Ma$terCard >> I get direct link for my purchase >> when one download completes link becomes invalid >> have a nice day. No account!!
Now for me well idc, I’d master the executable to a Blu-ray and also to an external HDD to be sure (tip - always have at least 2 backups of backups in devices of different storage function/mechanism etc.) because I got my product but it is like “volatile”. You lose it that’s too bad for you. I then storage it in my safe room that is fire-proof and inundation-proof. Now you finished your download you installed then a month later your windows crashed bad luck - reinstall OS you lost your GD you go back to gog.cm you pay again for a second copy of the .exe you used to have. Imagine the problems and unfair disadvantages for consumers as this is a digital only thing so THEY have to backup take measures etc. that’s not GoG respsblty they delivered your product. Also in the online data distribution network there is a lot of encryption (I hope). To be sure you’d have a 100% “DRM”-free product acquisition experience >> GoG will shutdown measures for your order >> you card number will travel in plain text over the whole Internet etc… Secure business data / product worth $$$ delivery before you having the product is used maybe for everything you buy/sell/deal online right now, encrypted from you to them and from them to you (that’s not DRM!) or I recommend you don’t deal with a business that doesn’t care and plaintexts your in/out data no problem.
Hence why you create an account on GoG so that you can download your DRM-free GD today, tomorrow again if needed, in one year 10X times or more etc. This is good even for me as I don’t want to do that backup, safe room takes an entire procedure to open etc. No consumer wanting to act in their interest would choose the no account way for a digital DRM-free video game download over the account creation one… only many customers would choose poorly, make the mistake can’t download again - OR if no one needs an account but wants the service and ease of mind that comes with it > the whole world can download for 0$ free-for-all a million times from here!! and Grim Dawn/Crate and GoG become a charity - now this is why GoG doesn’t even offer this method.
About the distribution clause thing that has been implied as making GD being DRM all day all the way. I will not go in the details or we never gonna finish the thing to understand is DRM measures is after you got the products and it limits your right with it. Not before. Or it mean Tetris on gameboy 1991 or wtv is a DRM game because of the measures of the shop you buy it from before you get in in your hands out of the shop in your car in your gameboy. And thus you could say this universe is ALL DRM then, not sure about the alternate one though. So >> I get my GD from GoG >> I play >> I go on trip >> I want to play GD on my laptop >> I install (I am “distributing” my DRM free to my laptop I could write a whole 2-post on what this means but let’s go like this lol) >> I play on Hardcore mode in California >> no problem. This game is DRM-free. Nothing restricts me in what the baseline game can do. Nothing is attached to this .exe of GD to DRM me in any way >> GrimDawnhavefun.exe IS DRM-free (from GoG) the .exe from Steam IS NOT I can assure you of that take the game (all files, folder structure) to a pure unsteamed machine >> run it >> nope.jpg.
Since I learned this word before in here 
> Here we have a very good example of advanced astroturfing. Of course it isn’t the case; it’s way too harsh for the developer. But this is a perfect way to do it. Really a 10/10! Instead of being on the “good” 
side you infiltrate the other side, post from their side but your post is “catastrophic” for them >> you create agitation as the guys are getting flak from “their side” >> the other side jumps on it etc. This argument coming from the no drm please! side means someone can come in now in this confusion and say well I told you guys Steam is no DRM or why do you want no DRM I mean GoG is more DRM than steam as far as I know now!
Just to be extra clear >> Imagine a cute leech that attaches to GD .exe and spreads some other defensive mutations nearby >> this is one way to DRM. It is normal and OK for steam. No problem because Steam is a DRM platform (that can deliver no DRM installs too, it easier to do of course just publish [but only for some random little tiny that has nothing to do with the business if you ask no-drm steam for your great game GabeN comes on your porch the day after with a chainsaw running full steam asking if you’re sure about that bro?]).
Now GoG >> download >> Install >> the program is pure no DRM do what you want (but respect the install agreement please :))don’t launch anything besides GD just click the shortcut! >> DRM free.
Have you considered the third option?
That there are ‘no’ steam fanboys even at the extremes?
We could just be getting trolled… poorly.
if GOG is going to be the preferred distribution point other than Steam, WHO supplies the GOG key, is that going to be GOG or will Crate get those to distribute to those that pre-ordered from Crate in the beginning as well as those who backed via KS, because according to GOG there is no key redemption arranged with them for the original key from Crate. Maybe I’ve got things arse about peter, and misunderstood things.
I think if you go into that much detail, your obliged to include the idea of the executable as well.
Technically speaking an executable represents a set of instruction, in the case of an installer how to decompress (if they are compressed) the files [not drm because key and locked item are together, never separated], how to organize them once moved and of course the instructions to move them.
The closest thing that a GOG.com installer has to DRM is the EULA which actively will prevent you from the act of decompressing the files if you do not agree with it.
Seeing as you have already paid for and received in contract the software, technically this can provide a significant problem (usually alleviated by a returns policy).
The problem being that if you do not agree to the EULA/TOS/Etc. you therefore cannot access the content and under fair use after receipt and of course payment you rightly ‘should’ be able to use content.
BTW (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End-user_license_agreement) there’s some good reading on EULA’s; Gog.com uses a shrink-wrap method.
Unfortunately EULA’s can be used not only to change rights, but to reaffirm the contract being agreed upon at time of sale (possibly why software companies get away with click-wrap as it is thought of as synonymous with the act of sale).
If it is changing specific consumer rights it too can be thought of as a form of DRM at least in attempt (steams been taken to court over right of resale in Australia); if it just reiterates the contract technically it does not (though just like the cashier who said you realize we have a no returns policy, has no jurisdiction to override consumer rights of redress for a non-functioning product, a Eula can pretty much be thrown out of any court bar an American one [& even then it sounds like it’s 50/50].)
Having just reviewed the EULA to another DRM Free (even before it came to GOG.com) game ‘Warsow’, it is inherent that the content of which is focused ‘around’ the game and the users rights to the source material; but not to their use of the product.
Therefore it can be concluded that a GOG.com EULA does not actually constitute by necessity a form of DRM, as it is simply restating the terms with how you will deal with the parent company and their asset (such as not taking half it’s code to make your own product for sale).
If it does not change or impact the digital rights you actually have, your rights can hardly be said to be ‘being’ managed.
Medierra has stated that post kickstarter they got a lot of backlash from backers wanting to access a game that wasn’t made yet.
The solution was to give them keys they intended to use, before the system to implement them in the product was developed.
Hence the keys with the transitions through different methods for availability as the product developed we’re to be invalid for specific use; that you would instead get one that actually functioned with the delivered product.
Think of it this way the DRM-free keys we’re placeholders (example keys) and because the algorithm they went with was different they decided just to give you new keys as the old would not work.
Keeping up to date they have had a hitch getting things uploaded on GOG.com but they are trying again.
Seeing as that is the case, you will more than likely be receiving your new key via the email you registered with (not before it’s ready and brought online to accept their new codes) and it will most likely be a GOG.com redeem code (not a specific in game serial though Medierra would have to confirm this).
[For more specifics GOG.com usually is issued a no. of licences from a developer and they then send these out, but it is likely more complex; though the only way they know you and what you should be getting is your registered email]
This redeem code would be used by you to tell GOG.com you own a license and allow you to download the game.
You would then download the game FROM GOG.com.
You would then install using the GOG.com executable.
You would then play the game.
Then you would feasibly be happy, but results may vary.
…
Then most likely you will return to the forums forgetting to check past pages and skip straight ahead to asking about the additional backers rewards.
Trust me I’ve covered it in detail, there’s official word on it you just have to do a bit of reading.
haha you are absolutely right!
I mentioned the agreement at the end but it didn’t occur to me that indeed it had to be addressed.
You’re right the GoG installer has his EULA and you did a better analysis on the matter than I would’ve done, Kudos!
I built a frigate but left a big hole in the hull now no more weakest link! All systems functional; all aboard!
To be honest I only wrote it because I know where this is heading & I almost guarantee it’ll end with the claim that ‘having to retrieve the game at all is a form of DRM’…; as if it should somehow magically come into existence on their system already loaded ready for input.
Then again maybe requiring user input is a form of DRM
Note that this clearly says “control the use, modification AND distribution…”. Not OR. This means that all 3 have to apply before you can call it DRM. In case of GOG there is absolutely no control on the use, so in those situations, calling it DRM simply does not apply. Once you’ve downloaded it, you can do with it whatever you want.
It’s simple really: GoG’s DRM is optional, you may choose to use their installable program or not. Or as I always say: you can buy from GoG, but you can only rent from Steam. Not that big of a deal, but big enough for us, nitpickers.
DRM was a smooth name for DRE: Digital Rights Enforcement
DRMs are made to compel us the more, in the thoughest way, without taking care of the respect of consumers, so from the editors view they feel THEIR rights are the more securely respected.
DRMs use third party softwares or hardware that we didn’t choose to install (or then we can’t play), or prevent us to use our game as we want. These softwares, preventing installing or playing our bought games, badly can make our pc becoming boring noisy (Starforce), at best they can have vaseline (Steam).
DRMs compel us, gentel customers, to obeying, by abusive means.
It’s an insult to our good will, an harm to our freedom, and a provocation to become pirates (but I’m not so easily provoked).
This is preventing handcuffs.
A cd-key in no way can prevent me from installing, playing or patching my game where and when I want. That’s not a ‘DRM’ for editors can’t seriously compel their management on us (without boring us). Maybe someday it will be possible for them to actually manage their rights without compelling us to third party means, but not for now.
Please devs, can you provide daily updates editing the first post? I can’t wait for this release on GOG.
DRM is somewhat acceptable as long as i am able to manage my rights on my own without a 3rd party being able to restrict my access at any point in time without my consent. i’d still have to break the law to make use of my rights though. it was all fun and games when gaming wasn’t as serious a business as it is today.
root kits (see sony), always online requirements (battle.net, steamworks, uplay, origins) or 3rd party software requirement to be able to launch/update are not ok. sadly gog also falls in the latter category. gog can revoke my rights to use their platform at any point. their installers may still work without that service - which makes this somewhat acceptable - but you are barred from future updates. this is why i had hoped crate would allow us to download the game from their site. i’m not happy with the situation. what if i do not agree with gog’s eula any more? why would that have to have any influence on how i’m able to play any of the games i bought through their site? why would i need to break the law to be able to play any of those games? a developer shouldn’t put his customers in this position.
i will content with it for now but i will be very careful in the future to make sure i’m not putting up as much money for any game as i did for grim dawn. this has a very chilling effect and shows us very clearly that trust is something that WILL be abused if it is convenient enough.
you still have to break the law and one wonders why that should be the customers only recourse to keep making use of his rights.
Steam is much, much more. It is required to log in, launch the steam app, and be online to play your games. If you ever have trouble, you will have to wait weeks for steam representatives to give you a copy and paste response without bothering to read the problem and wait weeks again for a followup. If your account is ever compromised or if steam decides for ANY reason, they can completely disable your account and remove your access to your games and there is nothing you could do. They have complete control. You rent.
With GOG and DRM Free, you download an installer, can back it up, and launch the game/patch it on any computer anywhere, without any outside apps, and you do not need to be online.