[BUG]Armor & Physical Damage, Armor & Retaliation

1.Physical Damage & Armor.
For Physical Damage from different sources, calculate the armor value respectively.
This is a problem left over from ancient times, and it still exists at present.
It is a big problem for the construction of physical builds.

2.The converted Physical Damage does not calculate the armor value.
The physical damage obtained by transforming other attributes does not calculate the armor value.
For example, elemental damage is converted to physical damage.
This may be a compensation for the previous one, but it doesn’t change the point that many fragmented sources of physical damage are almost meaningless.

3.Physical Retaliation does not calculate armor.
Including [Retaliation Damage added to Attack].
That’s the main reason why Physical Retaliation is so powerful.

Relevant tests of version

1 Like

Are you absolutely sure about this? Sorry, i couldn’t take anything away from the video concidering this issue.

I’ve made this build as an attempt of playing physical one-handers:

The goal was to minimize the number of dmg source to have the least amount of armor reductions. If what you are telling is true, the build should be very strong cause the majority of it’s dmg sources are conversions. But in reality it performs poorly.

2 QQ%E5%9B%BE%E7%89%8720200319083529

Nomal difficulty

level 102 Training Dummy:0%physical Resist,1565 armor,0% Piercing Resist. 70%Armor Absorption.

The physical damage base of one handed weapon is not high. Two handed weapons will perform better.

Physical resistance is prior to armor calculation.
Therefore, the size of Physical Damage in a single attack is very important. If the physical damage from various debris sources cannot be unified and then calculated at one time, the loss will be very serious.

Single handed weapons or DW can be supported by converting damage, but at least the basic damage of the weapon itself has been divided once.

Pretty sure this has been known for quite awhile now. Was discovered long ago in vanilla as a leftover mechanic from Titan Quest. I doubt it’ll change this far into development either as it means everything related to Physical would need tweaking/rebalancing.

I’ve heard a few others mention this as well. It seems to be a fairly recent discovery and from I have heard will not be getting fixed either.

This is new to me if true. I was under the impression Physical Retaliation is so powerful because of damage being converted into Physical ignoring armour compounded with enemies overall having low Physical resistance, hence why Beronath’s Reforged was nerfed on Retaliation builds.

Yes, i know that :smile: It’s like this for every dmg type. The only difference for phys is multiple armor applications for all those dual-wield hits. So the goal was to minimize the amount of armor applications through low amount of big dmg bonuses.

I just tested this as well and you are correct. Thanks for sharing, i might be able to build a proper phys dual-wield char now.

Elemental retaliation damage converted to physics.Messenger of War,Colossal Fortress,Vengeful Wraith,and Augment.

Is it about all kinds of damage converted to Physical or just about retaliation one?

It’s been known for a while that damage converted to physical bypasses armor. Zantai acknowledged this shortly after the release of AoM when Beronath Reforged had gotten its rework.

All types damage converted to physical.
Physical retaliation damage ignores armor by default.

Somehow Death Knight with a lot of converted flat damage from Soul Harvest is not that strong tho, any ideas why?

Would need a build link to say for certain. Tons of flat but nothing good to pump it through doesn’t leave you in a strong spot. Lack of gear support for +skills or high % damage. I suspect it might be low crit damage as one of the contributing factors if we’re not talking blade arc or forcewave

Because there are two damage reduction mechanisms: physical resistance and armor value.
The less physical damage a single attack causes, the greater the damage loss.
The basic damage of one handed weapon itself and the basic damage of Deadly Momentum have relatively large losses.
If it is sword shield mode, Counter Strike and Targo’s Hammer will also have a lot of losses.
Two handed weapons can alleviate this problem.A friend used Leviathan to make a death knight, which looks good.https://tieba.baidu.com/p/6226287276?see_lz=1

Forcewave performance of two handed weapon is good, but the weapon damage% of this skill itself is not high, so its final damage level is also in the middle level.
Compared with the force wave of fire or element, the general combat performance of physical force wave is not bad, but it will expose problems in the face of Ravager with high physical resistance.
This problem is more prominent in the construction of physical DW, physical sword shield, physical whirlwind and so on…

Physical Eye of reckoning has a minority of its damage as true physical, the % weapon damage values are negligible and the build does not amass large flat physical. Converting the base damage on the skill is the main source of its damage output, bypassing armor entirely.

I kinda addressed this in our private group, replying to banana peel. There’s another big problem on non retal phys - you just can’t easily take non phys devotions to convert. You might want stuff like meteors or ultos or amatok or whatever strong proc on the left side there is, but you can’t cause you’ll lack %phys. Not to mention for DW, your damage gets armor reduced twice due to it being a two weapon hit, as opposed to a huge chunk of a single weapon hit from 2h.

Just my old physical Death Knight which I am yet to update.

I know, I made the fastest physical build ever (if you don’t count broken retal stuff) and it’s obviously a two-hander.

But can retal builds really take non-retal devos to convert them?

Why would you, though?

So the question is, what kind of physical builds can really afford those devotions?

Cronley crawlers.

Seriously if you’re not into speed you’ll probably make it work into just about any phys build with conversion. But otherwise there’s nothing. 2h (blade arc and forcewave) does better with the normal phys devos cause of their huge damage numbers that armor redux don’t matter much.

And that’s why 1h phys is bad.