Perhaps I should write it in German to you because this is not what I said.
It´s no Build Compendium of mine, btw.
@ Malawiglenn:
Yes, perhaps. But that´s not the point here. It´s about the assumption that “Crucible is very very hard” for non-optimized speccs.
no german please, I had enough of that in school xD
Oh boy, that’s the only thing you can pick out from my whole post? An hangup on my Typo(which i fixed by the way and i argue that a normal person would’ve understood what i meant if he wasn’t as passive aggressive as you seem) and than try to insult me.
Too easy. Cruci needs a buff. Not necessarily more difficult waves but I think we need more randomness. Every cruci player learns the patterns just like a day or two after starting cruci farming. And trust me that gets you farther that your build will. We know we wanna kill kuba 1st on 154 if you have the dps, or thalonis first if you don’t. We know to position at top right in 153 to kill healers.
How about the waves stay the same. But the order is random. 10th waves stay (160 and 170), but 151-159 are shuffled, then 161-169 are shuffled. Same with all other lower waves. That way we know which set of waves we’re facing but we don’t know which exact wave is next, unless it’s the 169 since there’s only one wave remaining by that time. I think that way it’ll become harder for many pilots to play as many of the top builds are reliant on positioning at the start of the wave. Of course John Smith will still do 4 min runs, he’s not human. The rest of us will have a different experience imo.
In relation to what was stated above, I’d like some of the spawn points be rearranged. Why? BECAUSE ALL THE TROUBLE COMES FROM BOTTOM LEFT. AoM nemeses, Dravis, Kuba/Kaisan 154, I’d argue Sharzul is more dangerous than Alkamos/Lucius. I think what makes 169 hard is because in case of a full aetherial spawn you have to rush top left or bot right and that’s a no banner zone. If it’s dravis+korvaak? I’d always kill dravis first nowadays then anasteria and leave korvaak for 170 since it’s 30% chance of Alex in bot left anyway, which is a guaranteed clear unless you mess up.
Please tell me you have never taken a weaker/underoptimized/raw build into Crucible and got your face smashed there?
Venomblademaster is 7mins. Pretty consistent. S&b acid sentinel in 7 mins consistently too. Pyran templar in 6:30 but it was too glassy to be consistent. Can’t even remember the version that was a bit consistent. Pierce PB saboteur in 8 mins with 4 buffa. Very tanky cause SR set. Not to mention the variations of my runic bolts tactician that didn’t cut it cause it couldn’t break 7 mins but was really consistent. I had a grimtools for totally normal bleeding archon and that might work too.
These are all below my (and I’m sure your) criteria for optimized/good builds.
Venomblademaster? In Venomblade? Shielded Sentinel? Sabo in SR set with PB that leech you to full hp with ever cast? They are all not super synergetic specs but they all sound like tanky ones.
I am talking about stuff like Deathguard Reapers, or SS Spellbreakers or Elementalists or non-pet Conjurers, or Sabouters without SR set, etc.
I have recently tested Acid SS Dervish on Deathguard and spec is barely working (success rate ~40%) despite all the synergy. I can also name quite a bit of specs that are tested and that are on my youtube channel that have really hard time in Crucible despite having what it takes on paper.
Please don’t get me wrong on this, i’m not judging your Idea in general, but i’ve to point out the backlash potential. We can quite often read here and steam forum about the critique that “SR” is too “random”… and also that certain areas get this random mutators(though it seem atleast on that the community have gotten silent), if they would another layer of randomness to another mode, than you can be sure that there will be an backlash. In that case i suppose to add new / more stronger waves or rework / balance the waves we have now would be less “problematic” in that context.
Thing is we’re talking stuff here outside the top tier. All of those except probably that venomblade isn’t what you expect is top tier.
I remember you even said that the problem with the 7min+ builds is that even with so much defense it won’t be very consistent since you won’t have the damage to kill stuff.
Oh I do know that. But what’s less work for crate? Adding new waves that will still need balancing or just shuffling existing waves? If people stop reading at the randomness word, that’s their problem, not mine. That randomness won’t even be close to SR.
And I stand by it. Stuff out of top tier can be cold Blademaster in SR set. Sure, much less damage then Deathmarked, but it probably won’t die. Try playing stuff like Ritualists, Spellbreakers, Harra Sorcs, Reapers, Warlocks, Druids, Sabouters, Tricksters without min-maxed builds and great gear, I am sure you will forget the word “easy”.
EDIT: Even Vindicator can be hard if you build it on Bleed 
Warlock sucks. No hope for that right now. Harra too. The rest is all doable, maybe not sabo.
My point is I want the upper levels of cruci should only be reserved for minmaxed builds and those shouldn’t be able to do it so easily that it warps our standards to what it is now. That’s totally opposite of what you want so I get why you will never like my stand here.
Again, and I’ve said this before in another thread: make 150 easier and with more rewards. Farm there. Make 170 harder. Decrease rewards. Test your best builds there.
I get your point, mate. But don’t you think that this will cut a lot of builds from the meta? Like Shattered Realm right now. A lot of builds physically just can’t do 75 or even 65. Good builds with synergy and resists and everything.
Remember how Crucible was in early AoM and how it lead to that horrible DA meta that made every build look the same basically?
If you buff its dificulty you will make it a playground just for chosen few classes/archetypes and cut majority class combos out of the meta leaving them with nothing to really be proud of.
Well, bye then. No need to start an argument here who is the one who started passive aggressiveness.
@x1x1x1x2:
Randomness could be factor. But I personally won´t do that because this a factor in SR and I think, there should be a difference between the two preferred play-styles.
There are a lot of possibilities outside this how to make Crucible more challenging.
@Mad_Lee:
Saw your edit. 
But the whole discussion is kind of pointless. As I said in the beginning: My opinion is not a very popular one. Can live with that but it is nice to see that I am not the only one.
And you can believe Zantai or not…but he clearly explained that Crucible is not the main aspect of the game Crate balances items/masteries/skills/…
Believe it or not I liked the DA meta before DA was discovered. You clear cruci once within buff duration, it’s cool. It blocks the weaker classes from that mode? It’s the classes and their itemization. Next after making cruci harder is crate seeing to it that at least one or two cookie cutters for each class that can go through. That’s it. The rest (i.e. the gimmicks) is up to us builders to figure out.
Wow
So many words are here.
The idea of this thread wasn’t to criticize @Zantai and devs or discuss crucible
It was about
And the most important one
There is no offence 
I wasn’t a part of this thread until mad_lee summoned me. I just obliged 
No need to be snide my friend, but i will expand on what i said.
I read his post and I think you are taking what i said out of context. They are using videos posted by amazing players with amazing setups to gauge balance, sure there are other measures they would use too but it seems the most apparent. Perhaps it would help if zantai clarified what his ‘standards’ or balancing builds exactly is? Because it seems to me that the primary resource is what accomplished builders on the forums are posting. Maybe we could clear the air on this nebulous topic a bit more if this was delved into. Who determines what the outliers are? I can bet you that it is from crate watching madlee, johnsmith etc. videos and then thinking ‘hmm yeah, this spec obviously overpowered’
Summoning jutsu !
So to say build is Crucible viable,you need to finish Gladiator 170 in less than 12 minutes on 4 buffs no banner or under 8 minutes on 3 buffs 1 banner and you need success rate to replenish tributes.
That’s pretty much exclude 50% of the builds I tested.They’re either too slow or too glassy.And I am not even talking about builds with budget setups,I talk about full blown end game builds.Some examples
-Soulrend Reaper,with Bone Harvest and relic skill,too squishy.Can die against trash waves.
-Shadow Strike Spellbreaker, even defensive devotions can’t save it
-Ludrigan Storm totems Conjurer,can finish Gladiator once in a blue moon.But success rate of 10% is not Crucible material.
-Harra cold Stun jacks Saboteur,you know the answer already
-DW melee acid Witch Hunter,non Venomblade with MQ claw,not fast nor efficient
-Witch Hunter with Yugol relic,Wtf is this?
That’s on top of my head,but a lot of classes and sets even if build right will not allow you to really complete Crucible consistently and if you put too much defense,the time will suffer.
But what about the difficulty itself? It has been increased since FG emerged.Kaisan is toughest enemy for lot of my builds.168 wave became hard for glassy melee specs.More CC,also healers and fumblers and debuffs.Wave 169 with Korvak and Dravis is really lot more harder.
Some of the builds also requires skilled piloting.So Crucible isn’t easy as some people will tell you.Please don’t increase difficulty!