Cadence, Dual-Wield and WPS explained

[TheMun]

TL;DR: Cadence hits every 3 attacks without DW, every 2.5 attacks on average with DW but no WPS and every 2 attacks with DW and 100%. When a WPS procs on a cadence strike, only the first swing is overridden by cadence.

I was looking for (yet another) DW cadence build and only found contradicting post on how cadence interact with WPS so I decided to test it with a level 50 character, so I haven’t tried all the item-based WPS.

In this post, “attack” to refer to an attack animation and a weapon swing refer to the character swinging/firing a weapon. With DW and WPS, one attack can cause multiple weapon swings.

When dual-wielding range or melee weapon, there is a 50% chance to swing both weapon if no WPS is used. When this triggers on the first or second attack the cadence rotation, it only grants one charge. However, it can also trigger on the cadence strike (further referred as CS, the charged cadence attack). In this case, only one attack is empowered and the second weapon swing will count as the first attack for the next rotation. This has 2 consequences:

1. CS occurs every 2.5 attacks when dual-wielding with no WPS;
2. Since the main hand always hit first when both weapons are swung, it is used more often for the CS (put the weapon with the highest dmg/hit in the main hand).

Now the WPS. With ranged weapons, all mastery WPS, Volley (from the gunslinger talisman) and Marauder’s Salvo (from the marauder ammo belt) swing both weapons. When triggered on the CS, the first weapon swing is overridden, but the other(s) have their normal effect and count as the first attack for the next rotation. This means that with 100% chance to use a WPS, CS is triggered every 2 attacks. WPS that fire a succession of projectiles (Volley, Marauder’s Salvo and Chilling Rounds) will grant 2 charges when used as the first attack. Note that with 100% chance to use a WPS, there is first attack is always done with the CS, so this becomes mostly irrelevant.

With melee weapons, all mastery-based WPS (except Zolhan’s Techinque) and Mutilate from the bladesworn talisman swing both weapons. ZT is main hand only for melee (but always use both weapons for range for some reason). When triggered on the CS, the first weapon swing is overridden, but the other(s) have their normal effect and count as the first attack for the next rotation. Same as with ranged weapons, this means that with 100% chance to use a WPS, CS is triggered every 2 attacks. unlike range, WPS that hit more than twice, like Amarasta’s Quick Cut and Mutilate only grant 1 charge when used as the first attack.

Hope this helps.

[fordprefect]

Okay good, this was already tested and got same result by multiple individuals and I researched this a lot and there was always one thing that kept my mind busy. Couldn’t catch thr details from videos or thr explainations.
For example we have a cadence blademaster with %100 wps(which all are hits with both hands).

Now; we’re lucky and our R+L hit chance joined to Cadence; our maind hand hits Cadence and our off-hand hita regular auto attack. Since we have %100 wps chance and they all use both hands; the main hand hit that hits cadence also need to hit with the wps becauae the off-hand just procced that wps simultaneously. Since our off-hand can’t do hit as both hand wps animation, Will this attack be seen as Cadence animation hit but plus wps or will this attack will seen as wps proc animation hit plus cadence on the main hand? Or will the attack do both animations as fast as possible? If it is the third option will it slow you down? Because main hand had to hit twice, off-hand just needs to hit once.

[Valinov]

TL;DR: Cadence hits every 3 attacks without DW, every 2.5 attacks on average with DW but no WPS and every 2 attacks with DW and 100%. When a WPS procs on a cadence strike, only the first swing is overridden by cadence.

I was looking for (yet another) DW cadence build and only found contradicting post on how cadence interact with WPS so I decided to test it with a level 50 character, so I haven’t tried all the item-based WPS.

In this post, “attack” to refer to an attack animation and a weapon swing refer to the character swinging/firing a weapon. With DW and WPS, one attack can cause multiple weapon swings.

When dual-wielding range or melee weapon, there is a 50% chance to swing both weapon if no WPS is used. When this triggers on the first or second attack the cadence rotation, it only grants one charge. However, it can also trigger on the cadence strike (further referred as CS, the charged cadence attack). In this case, only one attack is empowered and the second weapon swing will count as the first attack for the next rotation. This has 2 consequences:

1. CS occurs every 2.5 attacks when dual-wielding with no WPS;
2. Since the main hand always hit first when both weapons are swung, it is used more often for the CS (put the weapon with the highest dmg/hit in the main hand).

Now the WPS. With ranged weapons, all mastery WPS, Volley (from the gunslinger talisman) and Marauder’s Salvo (from the marauder ammo belt) swing both weapons. When triggered on the CS, the first weapon swing is overridden, but the other(s) have their normal effect and count as the first attack for the next rotation. This means that with 100% chance to use a WPS, CS is triggered every 2 attacks. WPS that fire a succession of projectiles (Volley, Marauder’s Salvo and Chilling Rounds) will grant 2 charges when used as the first attack. Note that with 100% chance to use a WPS, there is first attack is always done with the CS, so this becomes mostly irrelevant.

With melee weapons, all mastery-based WPS (except Zolhan’s Techinque) and Mutilate from the bladesworn talisman swing both weapons. ZT is main hand only for melee (but always use both weapons for range for some reason). When triggered on the CS, the first weapon swing is overridden, but the other(s) have their normal effect and count as the first attack for the next rotation. Same as with ranged weapons, this means that with 100% chance to use a WPS, CS is triggered every 2 attacks. unlike range, WPS that hit more than twice, like Amarasta’s Quick Cut and Mutilate only grant 1 charge when used as the first attack.

Hope this helps.

@Ceno
10char

[Ceno]

Didn’t need to be @'d, but thanks…I guess? Saw the thread last night.

[Valinov]

Didn’t need to be @'d, but thanks…I guess? Saw the thread last night.

I knew you have done a lot of testing on this matter, and thought you might have something worth adding here. (or copypasta from old posts)

[TheMun]

Since our off-hand can’t do hit as both hand wps animation, Will this attack be seen as Cadence animation hit but plus wps or will this attack will seen as wps proc animation hit plus cadence on the main hand? Or will the attack do both animations as fast as possible? If it is the third option will it slow you down?

Except AQC that hit twice after the cadence strike, the animation is the same with WPS as without WPS that swing both weapons. It should only slow down the non-cadence attack.

[Ceno]

I knew you have done a lot of testing on this matter, and thought you might have something worth adding here. (or copypasta from old posts)

This post is consistent with DenisMashutikov’s findings from January:

[Feedback] Current state of different-damage-type Cadence (videos inside)

Just forget it. Currently game mechanic doesn’t allow that. ---- Besides, let me remember how DW Cadence works: As known dual-wielding allow chance to hit with main hand, off-hand, or both. Same is true for Cadence discharge (I don’t use 3rd strike term due to the following). So, when you discharge Cadence with both hands, as known only one weapon deal full damage, but second one counts as basic attack and charge your next Cadence. Moreover such attack can prock WPS. Thus with enough of luc…

And with my findings from May:

Cadence Irregularities (Video, annotations)

I recorded one minute of Cadence attacks against a dummy. The video below is of the first ten Cadence activations within that minute (about 2-3 seconds of actual gameplay) and annotates each individual attack, in pursuit of irregularities. Weapon Pool Skills involved are Markovian’s Advantage, Zolhan’s Technique, and Smite. Pay particularly close attention to the attack animations in question, as well as the timing of Deadly Momentum and the presence (or lack thereof) of the Cadence buff: Of …

The only insight I would offer is that generalizations of “2.5 attacks on average” somewhat glosses over what’s actually happening and isn’t a rhetoric I would personally further.

[fordprefect]

Except AQC that hit twice after the cadence strike, the animation is the same with WPS as without WPS that swing both weapons. It should only slow down the non-cadence attack.

So you’re saying all both hand cadence attacks will include the damage of the wps on the target but will be seen as standart cadence(this means 2 main hand one off hand hit on the same animation) attack except AQC?

[Troll_from_behind]

So is Cadence with DW melee with 100% WPS-pool dps loss?

[TheMun]

So you’re saying all both hand cadence attacks will include the damage of the wps on the target but will be seen as standart cadence(this means 2 main hand one off hand hit on the same animation) attack except AQC?

No, I meant that the animation is that same as a cadence strike without WPS, but the off-hand attack is replaced by the WPS. So 1 main-hand cadence strike and 1 off-hand WPS strike per attack animation.

[fordprefect]

That’s what I said except AQC. The videos I’m watching is a bit different though, the animation changes once in a while; sometimes cadence hits with wps animation.

[CaiusMisus]

Seems to mostly correspond with the tests I did 11 days ago and put in a thread here, although I only did ranged dual wield and WPS. I was only wrong in the default chance to attack with both weapons (thought it was 33% but it’s 50%).