Can "Increased Healing Effects" affect Regeneration?

I agree that health regen needs more love and since low level of regen does nothing in end-game; improving several and seperate sources of regen and enabling regen from physique scale with others won’t hurt the balance. In order to balance some regen base sets, their flat value can be reduced easily.

Rare affixes with health regen are particularly weak right now, IMO. “of Nature’s Bounty”, “of Reptilian Resilence”, “of the Grove”. I think they’re ok affixes on their own but I’ve never taken them for their health regen, since the values are so low.

I would also recommend buffing Bysmiel’s Silversand. I actually use them a lot but they remain unchanged since FG came out.

I’m not entirely sure why “Increased Healing Effects” doesn’t affect health regen in the first place. It might be some engine-related limitation, wouldn’t be surprised honestly.

So controversial yet so brave. I have a character with mere 1500 regen and it already feels too safe most of the time.
As for the subject - problem is I don’t even know if “healing effects” include leeching right now. But I wouldn’t expect “healing effects” to affect leeching or regen. That’s because they’re “leeching” and “regen” - different mechanics than “health restored” like e.g. Menhir’s will from Soldier.

Increased Healing Effects does include Leech. It’s literally, every source of healing except Regen (Ironically when you consider that Lizard, Behemoth and Harvester’s Scythe devotions include nodes with Increased Healing Effects)

Just going to jump in with a little devil’s advocate here - this point is heavily dependent on the build.

Facetankers that deal their damage directly need leech and lose all of it if they cannot deal damage either due to CC or if it’s glass cannon enough that they need to be constantly dealing damage to stay alive. Kiting builds on the other hand such as DoT stackers or player-pets can afford to avoid damage more reliably while regenning.

Builds with little-to-no-weapon damage to leech on like pet-scaled pet builds and Bleed builds without built-in ADCtH (e.g. no PBlades casters) also don’t get off so easy with just ADCtH and have to work with health regen or chunk heals.

Regen is only problematic in scenarios where you directly try to substitute it for life steal - you can’t get the same burst protection that life steal provides so easily sure, but that does not mean health regen is bad.

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Tbh, I’ve seen a chaos DB pyro with conduit mod to vindictive flame facetank SR 90 with insane HP regen. I think the guy took behemoth + Tree of life + dryad; hardcapped vindictive flame and blood of dreeg.

Ofc this was back in like 1.1.4. So maybe it’s outdated.

Regardless, I honestly think the issue faced OP is inadequate investment into said defensive stat.

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Obviously, you’ve not really read my post.

Compared to Leech, Regen requires much more investment and only really pays off with Tree of Life and/or Avenger but at the cost of well… Having to go Tree of Life, needing skills like Vindictive Flame and Blood of Dreeg, likely also needing Gollus Rings (Possible other equipment like Tinker’s etc) etc…

Meanwhile, for Leech you just need a bit of Leech, some WD% (Or spells that innately have ADCtH such as Sigil) and you’re good to go and quite tanky to boot.

Even moderate investment into Regen ends up with a crummy build with only 1.5k-2k regen that pales in comparison to a Leech build that can more easily get 11-15% leech (Doesn’t need to sacrifice any pieces of gear for lower damage items with regen on, doesn’t need to invest as much into devotions allowing for more damage/utility pickups)

If someone REALLY invests into Regen, they can do some nice things. But you kind of HAVE to invest that much into Regen to make it decent, while for any %WD build you can simply get a bit of Leech and you’ll be fine through all but the absolute hardest content in the game.

yup
that was my point too
we have ADCTH builds that has a casual 10% lifesteal doing XYZ content
meanwhile if you want your regen to matter you need to focus a fair bit in it
hence why i said i don’t think it will be a major change to incl regen in +heal effects, because immortal regen builds will still be immortal, it will just make “casual regen” a bit better as you wont be forced to plop regen stats on the majority of your item slots or forced to take tree of life etc etc to make it work
(probably still will have to do all that if you want regen to be your sole sustain and do heavy content i bet)

I mean…by that logic, leech only works if you go crazy heavy with DPS and (in most cases) %WD

It is also affected by anything which disrupts your attacks, so CC-res becomes so much more important.

It’s directly influenced by how many targets you can leech off of simultaneously, so most leech dependent builds can’t make it to high SR levels (unless Im that out of sync with the meta)

Edit: I’m pretty sure most enemies have lifesteal res? But I can’t remember of the top of my head.

In my experience, leech only works well if you can hit that point where enemies aren’t staying around long enough to do significant damage to you.

Most Adcth builds rely on circuit breakers (e.g. ghoul) to really recover from big hit

2nd edit: barring exceptions like drain essence, most adcth builds also tend to have a higher skill cap to pilot successfully.

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I disagree on most of these being necessary, namely Tree (though it does help tremendously) and Gollus rings/Tinker’s belt (though again, if you find space for them, they help).

Other than Blood of Dreeg and Vindictive Flame, other masteries get access to passive health regen as well. Though Demo/Occultists are seen the most because of the Vindictive Flame Conduit and because skill points to both skills come in so easily. Vindictive Flame is also buildable for damage now so that is also another point for building some passive regen onto it.

Provided you have a suitable foundation for it, it’s not hard to build up to ~1.5k health regen that goes up even further with temporary procs.

And I mention again - not every build can afford these or the flat damage and attack/cast speed or CDR to use them effectively. For example, some of my pure health regen builds are Retaliation casters, pet builds and a pure damage caster that could not afford swapping in gear pieces to convert Twin Fangs.

This says nothing about how much weapon damage the build is outputting or how quickly it can put it out however, and how much the build has to dedicate to building up it’s flat damage. Yes, several builds will pick up flat and attack/cast speed for scaling their damage but there are several skills and builds for said skills that do not need it at all.

I think we are looking at this the wrong way:

You cannot look at adcth on most of the builds here as a defensive tool anymore than you can look at health pots as a defensive tool.

No one is putting adcth on most specs “defensively”

It’s more like…how can I go in and fuck shit up without dying.

Hp regen on the other hand IS defensive the same way shields are defensive.

Both of them suck the hairy one without adequate investment.

I.e. the mindset here is - how can I make my spec as survivable as possible.

I feel like you’re comparing apples to oranges here?

ADCtH is defensive.

No-one puts ADCtH on their build to do more damage (Maybe Yugol, Revenant and Mogdrogen are picked up primarily for damage and the ADCtH granted is incidental), it is there entirely for the sustain it gives.

ADCtH and Regen are this games 2 primary sources of sustain (Heal procs and skills exist, but I’ve yet to really see a build rely upon them as a primary sustain source. Typically they’re just secondary sources to bolster what they get from ADCtH/Regen)

ADCtH tends to require less investment in order to get good returns from it, but some builds are forced into Regen because of lack of %WD (Or spells that innately have ADCtH such as Sigil of Consumption, Drain Essence, Siphon Souls). Hence my concern over ADCtH vs Regen, because I want to make builds that utilize non-%WD skills but have a harder time getting adequate sustain compared to my builds that use %WD and slap on some ADCtH.

I could have alternately asked for ADCtH to work on all skills, not just %WD ones. But I know that’d be super broken by the showing of how strong Iskandra’s TSS builds are due to being able to leech off of TSS.

At the end of the day, my main goal here is to see if it is possible for the “Increased Healing Effects” stat be extended to include Health Regeneration. To help mitigate some of the investment needed in order to make Regen builds functional.

Due to the limited availability of IHE, it shouldn’t break low-mid investment Regen builds but might enable them to be more comfortable in content like SR 70-75.

The main concern would be the effect on high investment Regen builds, however, one would need to consider exactly how much it would actually affect them (Like, at what point do you have so much Regen that you basically only die to burst damage that kills you outright before Regen has any effect?) as well as potentially look at counterbalancing measures (Given that all of the builds that have been noted as doing “Crazy things” include Tree of Life it could be possible to nerf that devotion if IHE makes those builds too strong)

I for one would love more tankiness on my pet builds, so +1
image

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why can’t “when hit” devos be bound to true pets? seems like that could also bump up their chonk’ness :thinking:

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I assume Zantai wants them to be less chonky :woman_shrugging:

Tree, LoE, etc if bindable to pets, would essentially make pet builds even safer than they are atm since the player no longer has to get hit to get the benefit, meaning you can stay far from the action and use both hands to eat ice cream instead of just one.

Note: Stuff like Ishtak’s proc would be weird though, since the Damage Absorb is supposed to go to the player and binding it on a pet would make it go to the pet instead. Also would create issues on how thee “Bonus to all Pets” part will work.

Maybe, instead of not wanting to increase their chonk’ness, Z could just be going for consistency.

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I think you’ve made some very solid points, and I stand corrected.

Let me try to phrase myself more clearly.

Most things in GD cannot be looked at in isolation; similarly we must understand offence/defence in tandem. That is not to say that all builds prioritise the 2 equally.

In the setting of adcth, the priority of most builds is DPS. I think this is indisputable.

The only reason why adcth gets such good returns for the little bit of investment is because of the heavy investments into offence.

In other words, the spec relies predominantly on DPS to survive. Adcth just makes it easier.

A clearer analogy would be a CDR based build with 45% CDR stacking heals.

Are the healing procs the main source of sustain? No. It’s the CDR.

So similarly, a little bit of investment into skills like word of renewal, or devotions like behemoth will go a much longer way.

Turning our attention to builds which prioritise defence: ignoring lazy builds (@maya), these builds need to be able to face tank to dish out the pain.

The chaos DB spamming pyro with insane HP regen can consistently land direct strikes with DB on targets. The shield based retal warlord needs to get hit to proc rta. Etc.

Thus, in this setting, a small bit of investment into offence goes a much longer way than it would when compared to glass cannons.

EDIT: so why don’t I want IHE to affect HP regen?

Because it would make builds using HP regen as their predominant offensive/defensive strategy insanely broken.

2nd EDIT: just realised I forgot to respond to this specific bit

^me clearing naked with it

The only source of sustain outside of word of renewal is bat IIRC

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If the build is the one linked… Then there’s also Ghoul, 16% Leech and Chain Lightning (Which is 70%WD)

I mean…what flat damage does the spec have?

And IIRC, SBoE is on a 0.3 or 0.4s CD?

Chain lightning is really there just to squeeze out that little bit more DPS in between casting TSS and SBoE

Surely we can agree that chain lightning is not the reason why the spec is surviving

EDIT: I had originally made the spec without chain lightning and it was more survivable. Hence the title, “DPS version”

Health Regen already has its own % modifier.

It would be redundant to have it also be affected by increased healing.

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