Classes/Masteries Nerfs and Buffs thread

Grim Dawn Ideas and Feedback
61

-DA should fit, but if we get flat DA reduction then it’s redundant with existing soldier skills, and stackable -DA isn’t normally found on skills that don’t specify a duration at the start of the description (look at CoF and vulnerability. CoF states at the start that if has 5 or 6 seconds duration then specifies all the debuffs that will be applied. Warcry doesn’t have the same wording so I doubt you can put -DA there.

-OA doesn’t fit, imo cause with warcry, you want people to hit you. Reducing their OA is the opposite of what it wants to do.

Tbf, my transmuted IK sorc can clear cruci in 10 mins (on my laggy laptop) with an offensive devotion and skill build (meteors, fissure torrent then devastations). Expect those classes with more RR (pyro, purifier) to clear faster, hence fluff’s 9 min results on purifier. Pyro should be able to do it but you’ll need more carefl play because it’s the squishiest among the three. If a very good player plays it then it should be just a lil bit slower than purifier (kalastor> fire doom bolt) but for an average player it’ll probably be just as fast as sorc

62

I agree with the dislike of player %health reduction on skills.
Oddly, one of my first comments about Occultist was to do with %health reduction:

This is a fairly common theme in Occultist.
Else, just remove it from the player skill ( or grey it out) and put something else in that is effective.

And got a fairly common response of

It’s just a bonus…
…you’re also wrong about it being not a useful thing against trash. Some things in “trash” category have a rather large hp pool.

Anyways on to Inquisitor:

As I learned the game, it became more and more apparent that Inquis was over-the-top. DR, OA, damage… all alluded to in the thread. I also think it got way to many nods in new and old equipment…but I suppose that was because I began to liken inquis to a bike with training wheels.

Now, it’s not uncommon for sequels to promote new classes and more power…but I think inquis became 2x most other classes.

My concern is that if Oathkeeper sees the same bump, then Inquis + OA will be 2x2 = 4 times more powerful than other combinations. (mostly exaggerating to make a point). And everyone will end up using it in the endless dungeon…myself included.

Most of the points have been made, but I also think deadly aim needs a nerf:
-@12/12 this gives 18%OA boost! and 1/12 for 4% …Really?!
(for 5s duration on a crit with 5s CD…which proc’ing isn’t that big of deal with current meta)
-22/12 overcap is only +6%OA more, which is much more sensible territory.

Occult and pets:
-one of the things that could be reduced is buff aura radius. This would mean that pets need to be tight to the caster to get the benefits and can’t be running the whole screen.

Demo:

Thermite Mines:
-bigger radius and less placement delay

Canister:
-Improved casing % boosts need double or triple current. By far, the current major component of canister is dot and dot does not benefit from apr boosts
-add a conversion node to convert pierce/trauma to fire/burn

Ulzins Chosen
-personally, I think the cd chance is ok, but greatly boost %total damage. Add in BWC to qualifiers.

Mortar
-imho could do with some mutators.

T

63

People asking for Aura of Censure nerfs, really? This buff sucked for a while and it was constantly criticized as a more expensive Night’s Chill that takes a spot of an exclusive skill. Now that it’s finally good by getting damage reduction, you want it nerfed? Seriously?

64

@Fluff

I got 14/12 Inferno on that sorc as well and 16/12 Canister Bomb, so quite a few burn damage sources.

@x1x2

So your sorc puts my sorc to shame, damn :frowning:

EDIT:

I still want to pitch that Sorc class needs some love, it got completely overshadowed by Purifiers in AoM.

65

The skill is not compatible with -OA/DA because it is not a skill that applies itself as an independent buff. It’s a source of multiple individual debuffs. It could have nonstacking reductions though, sure.

66

I believe you guys, was just throwing in theme compatible ideas.

Flat OA shred could be nice. Retal builds can just get a bit less DA if it’s a problem

67

The one thing I can say about BWC, is untransmuted it does a staggering laughable, under 400 base chaos damage with mythical blood orb caster off hand, when you then realize that you would just want to go fire strike ranged to deal an obsurd amount more damage with a ranged chaos build from demos brimstone. low flat chaos damage, no dot for chaos… yes bwc needs that buff asap.

Now with break morale…This is skill has been basically nerfed to the ground. Why the hell does this entire class only have one source of RR, and its by a physical flat amount. Remember the good old days, when soldier synergized better by having ALL flat resistance reduction. Someone throw this guy a bone. give him % pierce/%physical/bigger flat resis to all types like it used to be.

68

Back with Pyro BWC feedback (used exact same setup, didn’t change a thing aside from switching between korvaak and combustion to see the differnce):

Offense: Went exactly the same, and surprisingly smooth too

Defense: More squishy due to lower DA mainly as it lacks WR. This can be fixed by replacing the blue booth ( I had Emberstone) with something that gives DA.

And that’s it for me. I’d only work on chaos bwc from here on

69

another thing… you are forced to go inquis if you want to even attempt a chaos BWC :stuck_out_tongue:

70

maybe, maybe not. I have not went hard into BWC chaos. Since it uses IK i don’t see it bringing new stuff to the table.

The ONLY reason I wanted chos bwc was an excuse to use Hellpath off-hand (chaos 'nades suck, kinda).

I think you rely too much on the flat dmg side of BWC. It only kills masses of normal mobs even on in my purifier video. It’s the burn sources+ all procs+fissure/meteor shotgun/torrent spin that does it.

The build functions differently

71

I totally get your point. You rather use BWC as a utility then lol, by supporting with fissure/rune of haggard/inferno/ rune of kal. I understand. but what if you don’t want that, and you want to just spam one skill? then you are forced to take Stormfire, and use bwc as transmute utility :confused:

Why does bwc have to be utility/secondary status for chaos :frowning:

72

Buff monsters then. I would rather see buffs across the board with my last dying breath, then to see anything that works well to be nerfed.

73

It doesn’t work that way with some skills. You can’t have them all be auto attack potency ( or Hagarrad *cough).

JoV made a super popular BWC spammer. BWC was the shit back then. And he did it without videos too.

At no point did BwC kill well on it’s own back then in his build. It was all about how the build worked as a whole. No one ever even question this it was self-understood.

So i really don’t know how to reply to these doubts any more since such mechanics have long been established for some skills, great AoE, less so in single target but aided there by additional spells/procs. If crate increased base BWC flat dmg by 50% you’d hardly feel it in ultimate vs bosses just mobs. It’s not what the skill is, never was

74

If we’re really talking about solder skills that need a buff, how about Veterancy? I’ve never seen this skill taken, even in builds with +4 or +5 to Soldier. Every single bonus combines into a perfect storm of uselessness. At 10/10:

  • 60% constitution bonus. Nobody past level 5 cares about running out of constitution. Might as well not be there.
  • -18% physique requirement for armor. Even without physique stacking being the meta for everyone, soldiers are especially not going to skip it, given that you have military conditioning and want to tank. Using it would actually be actively detrimental.
  • 36 health regen per second. A completely trifling amount, might fall on the very low end of mediocre on an Avenger warder of something. Comparatively, Blood of Dreeg gives you the same amount of regen at 6/16 and is also at the 15-point mark, while having all the other bonuses. Still the best bonus on this skill, which really says a lot.

If we’re going by the survivalist description of the skill, add small amounts of reduced poison/bleed duration to represent acclimation to exotic places. Increase the health regen to an amount that just mediocre, but not laughable. It’s not like health regen was ever a good defensive mechanism. Once increased % healing is a thing in Forgotten Gods, this skill would be a perfect place for it.

75

Back in the day, years ago in early access bwc used to be very good single target, and aoe, with massive radius. It wasn’t always the focus of utility. then they gutted and destroyed the skill, and after several changes, this is what we are left with, a half baked idea, that relies on other things to make it work for 36 points :p. You would think for a 36 skill point investment skill, it would do good single target and aoe, like primal strike/fire strike/cadence/FOI,DE/RE all on its own, but nope, not anymore!

76

Interesting thread, here’s my list of stuff that annoys me, probably many things have already been mentioned but still:

Arcanist

  • AAR is a candidate for worst skill in any class, honestly, it needs an astronomical damage boost or otherwise a mechanical overhaul, I guess the former is much easier to do
  • Devastation is perhaps a bit too good for the amount of points it takes
  • Untransmuted CT is a bit underwhelming still
  • PRM needs a lot more power given how many skill points it eats up, or just remove supercharged entirely, dot on spammable skills, ugh, terrible

Demo:

  • Ulzuins chosen, remove the fire conversion as it makes stun jacks actively worse (this is minor but so annoying for some reason), increase all damage bonus and energy reduction
  • Mines are just mechanically terrible, I suggest either throwing out all 3 projectiles at once like all other shotguns or just say fuck it and make it one mine only with like 5m radius which I would prefer
  • Ulzuins wrath range limit needs to die in a fire, it should proc every time the main skill does, regardless of what is hitting you
  • Canister bomb needs to have, on gear, a 100% phys > fire conversion, for empyrions sake it has 3 (!!) 100% pierce > fire conversions available, this is a pet peeve of mine I admit but it makes no sense with the large amount of trauma on it

Inquisitor:

  • This whole class just does too many things at once, and does them well at that, something needs to give here to keep classes somewhat competitive
  • My suggestion would be to nerf crit damage in both deadly aim and the seal, too much of a good thing here honestly (this is also why everyone these days seems to use hungering void…)
  • Censure could do without the skill disruption, a nerf and a buff at once since you won’t get reflect disrupted again, this skill does too many things at once I feel, like the whole class

Necro:

  • Soul harvest is a bit too strong
  • Decay should probably be toned down a bit, given its 100% uptime and general ease of use
  • Transmuted blight fiends are underwhelming, particularly the on death explosion, could use a few more seconds added to their existence

Nightblade:

  • Blade spirit needs the cold damage turned into pierce/bleed
  • Blade trap needs desperately to be a “normal” skill that doesn’t get nullified by trap resistance, I suggest making it use the rune template instead, just forget about the trap bit, you don’t need it against trash and can’t use it against bosses, I don’t see the point
  • Merciless rep gets the award for most forgettable passive skill in the game

Occultist:

  • DEE is so … average, it needs something to make it interesting again
  • Mend flesh is probably the most useless skill in the game, the bird has no clue on how/when to use it, why continue this sad tale? I suggest putting it out of its misery, nobody ever uses this
  • Pox has health reduction, which I kind of hate, like the trap effect it’s useless against trash which probably dies faster to ordinary damage and useless against bosses, the only things with a large enough hp pool for health reduction to make any sense, but they are basically immune to it. It makes sense as an enemy ability but not for the player, get rid of it I say.

Shaman:

  • Actually I have no problems with it as it is… this feels weird :eek:

Soldier:

  • Mostly fine except for war cry, health reduction as mentioned before is kind of awful
77

A couple of comments, in green

78

I’m not aware of an easy way to convert acid to cold or vice versa. Deadly Momentum has a single damage type, and cold->vit is also somewhat accessible through things like the Blood Knight set or Malmouth scepter. In reality, you’re going to be using only half the flat damage that Lethal Assault offers.

79

@Fluff

So IK BWC Pyro can clear Crucible 150-170? What would be its success rate compared to IK BWC Purifier? (but be honest, for an average pilot, not for someone like yourself)

@Avyctes

Untransmuted CT with Agrivix set is insanely strong. Even works well on Sorceress. And properly assembled Agrivix Spellbinder is a monster top-tier build.

I would say transmuted CT is underwhelming, just 105% weapon damage x 175%, so 275% WD nuke with 5 seconds cooldown. Compare it to nukes like Shadow Strike Or Bone Harvest or Primal Strike.

80

Then the problem is in the availability of 100% conversion from cold to vitality, not with Soul Harvest itself.

BTW, you can convert up to 60% cold to acid with the full Deathguard set, and 30% acid to cold using Silver sentinel shoulders. You can also convert all Vitality damage to cold on Bone Harvest by dual wielding a pair of Mythical Dreadweavers