Am i reading wrong or i found someone’s else who shares the same opinion i have, that being that the Crucible did heavy damage to the game? Now every build has to be “Can it beat Gladiator Crucible” and no longer “Can it beat Ultimate vanilla with not much issues, including all possible Nemeses, MQ and maybe Mog and Ravager?”, like it used to. I reached a point where i just wish the Crucible never existed, even knowing it was a kickstarter goal.
Also, if my crummy Sword and Board pierce Tactician can facetank the Ultimate vanilla MQ with next to no issues, how the hell can’t a DK Krieg do the same?
-Firstly, I won’t bother reading all the long posts so can someone explain who keeps saying Krieg BM/DK can’t facetank MQ? Cause that’s incorrect
-Secondly, Zhuugus I can’t speak for others but I’m pretty open about the fact that I never post anything I feel will get the axe.
I know a few others who prefer to remain tight lipped on certain concepts. Even some top tier builds you see here don’t make it to the forums until the poster is usually bored with the build and couldn’t give a rat’s ass if Zantai nerfs it
There used to be more people who remained secretive about stuff but eventually I think everyone realized nerfs will come regardless of what anyone does.
-Lastly, I personally hate the fact that Crucible’s very existence is the reason why many innovative concepts don’t see the light of the day. I have many reasons to dislike it and this one tops it.
This is the other reason why i despise Crucible. It’s so restrictive, so defense oriented, that more unique builds are not made. I’d rather have an unique build crushing ultimate content than some generic, overly defensive build beating Gladiator Crucible. The best build would be an unique build crushing Gladiator Crucible but because it’s so defensive oriented, i don’t see it happening.
Wow, so many crucible haters have horoured my humble thread with their presence.
The main reason to play games is to have fun. Do whatever you want. You despise crucible? See if I care! I’m confirmed that crucible is the best thing that has happened to this game, giving it immense depth and replayability.
Obviously I will consider builds that can’t clear crucible at all or clearing it in 2 hours not worthy. But you can enjoy your easy mode in campaign, it’s just I have nothing to discuss with you.
About rats. I despise this attitude. Now, after you’ve told me they actually exist I respect famous buildmakers even more.
I was glad to share my battlemage for example, sharing brings a sense of satisfaction. Of course I will be sad if it gets nerfed, but that will be on dev’s conscience.
reading the last few posts here reminds me of when the mark of a good build was being able to survive Gutworm at the level cap of 25.
The game evolves, more content gets added, builds adapt. Make and play the build for the content you enjoy, be it campaign or crucible.
Sorry if it pisses anyone off, but complaining about most of the builds on the forum being crucible focused is about as nonsensical as the guys who bitch about cadence builds. Play what you want and who gives a fuck what others play?
Yes, because being extremely restrictive and funneled into overly defensive builds is somehow “immense depth and replayability”. :rolleyes:
There’s no depth and replayability in Crucible, just pick an overly defensive, generic build and you’re done.
People can enjoy Crucible all they want, i don’t care. But side content that has absolutely nothing to do with the main campaign somehow now dictates what a good build is. To me that’s the problem because Crucible severely diminishes build creativity.
Guys, lets keep in perspective that Crucible is the most challenging content in the game as-is. Of course it will be used as a metric for build strength - nothing in Campaign has anything coming even closer to what glad. Crucible with bad mutators can throw at you.
Additional problem is the loot - due to the duplicate issue you cannot hope to collect the loot via Campaign mode while you can repeat Cruci 20-30 times and get all the legendaries.
Of course people will focus builds for it. And really who gives a hookers ass how other people play the game - do what YOU enjoy and leave the rest to enjoy theirs!
Also how is Crucible stopping creative builds - i dont see any merit here. You can have any kind of a build - if it will be Glad. viable its another topic but with the risk of repeating myself - if you dont enjoy Crucible - what is stopping you to have all kind of wacky builds?
I remember those times! Blademasters were OPAF and Shard of Beronath was stronger than Cadence! Those were the days.
Exactly.
Some famous buildmakers told me that they were upset with the current state of the crucible - because the think it is too EASY and even mediocre builds can clear it now.
I myself have done a lot of successful runs with glass cannons and even pet builds (which are even glassier).
Yeah, go tell me how I should be “overly defensive”. The depth is in balancing a build to withstand a real challenge and be effective.
How about all other games, you despise any other difficulty than “easy”?
I was saying exactly the same! But I guess it is too wise of an action for haters.
This is generally my attitude towards anything, if others are having fun then it’s fine
Of course any individual can play whatever the heck they want, but in the build section if a non-crucible build is posted it’s generally looked down upon (this is worse when some new face posts it). This causes the builds section to be filled with nothing but rehashed concepts.
This problem isn’t exactly caused by the crucible as I’ve seen it happen even before Crucible Glad builds were a thing. But the crucible has made it much worse, I know nothing can be done about it which is why I rarely bitch about it
Lastly, I’m going to opt out of this discussion since I don’t think this belongs in a build thread and I’m glad that more people are posting builds. Again good job Zhug. (whispers use Nullification :p)
Any further posts by me will most likely only be related to the build itself
Did i said anything about not wanting people to enjoy whatever they want? Stop trying to make my posts seem like they are doing that.
Crucible is DLC. Crucible has absolutely nothing to do with the main campaign. Why should it now dictate what a good a build is or not? Like Chthon said, every time now a build is posted is always “Can it solo Gladiator Crucible?” and if they either say they don’t care for it or say it doesn’t, it’s extremely frowned up and forgotten in a little while, in favor of one that can.
Yes, Crucible kills build creativity. Some people already complain Ultimate does that, but Crucible made that 10 times worse. You are pretty much funneled into the same skills, items and devotions, with the only diference being their damage types and the devotion of those types.
There’s absolutely no challenge in throwing everything at you and the kitchen sink, because that’s what the Crucible does. Not to mention how mutators are luck based. You either can have a piss easy time or get shit mutators and have a hard time. Luck isn’t challenge.
Dude this is an solo-oriented offline ARPG (hence like majority of us play and support the game so vigorously) - the challenge is the number crunching and the min maxing to withstand every possible combo which the most challenging game content can throw at you - as-is Crucible.
Yes i fully agree Crucible is boring and funneling everyone the same defensive route - however its OUR choice how to play the game. Nobody is forcing you or me to do anything.
Who cares if “people” are ignoring X build on some damn forum - seriously first world problems here - if you have a build you want to play - just play it. Its really pointless discussion especially since Campaign is still a joke in terms of difficulty and time/reward ratio vs Crucible and there is no indication this will change.
That’s what we do, making builds so strong that we can even laugh at 2x Tough Iron Maiden of Cruelty. I hate Crucible as much as the next guy as a solution for endgame farming but I have to admin it’s the best benchmark we have at the moment.
Even when I’ve got almost every unique items in the game I still keep doing Crucible runs, lowering clear time for one more minute, polishing my builds even further .etc
Why in the fuck you keep bringing this up? I’m not even talking about this. I’m talking about posting creative builds, something the Crucible shits on. I wouldn’t have known half of the stuff i know today if people didn’t posted a bunch of creative builds. Something the Crucible hates because it’s so restrictive and extremely build limiting.
For me challenge isn’t luck based, it’s a well balanced, finely tuned challenge. Something the Crucible clearly isn’t. Having your experience so radically different depending on luck is not challenge.
You know that exotic builds will always lag behind orthodox, well-supported builds no matter what kind of challenger it is right?
At the current Crucible-based meta the different is between doable and undoable, but even when a perfect benchmark does exist it will be something like “Can do it in X minutes” vs “Can do it in Y minutes”. Most people will go crazy for the Y minutes builds like they did the Gladiator viable builds atm, while creative build makers will keep making creative stuff. People love shiny numbers, that’s it.
AS much as I like doing an off-beat build, if you are into doing the ultimate challenge the game provides then Crucible does take some creativity on the builders behalf to make it viable or even 100% full proof. not always that easy.
As for the player deciding on an off-beat build then it’s also the player that decides what it strives to be good at. Is it vanilla content only? Vanilla+Nemeses? Crucible even maybe (hard map easy map?). so it starts from the player, NOT crucible’s fault.
So blaming crucible or implying that Crucible hinders creativity, or that crucible builds are all uncreative, is a really odd thing to say. You either take up a challenge( all said above) or not and apply your build to it as best you can.
Same goes for HC naked challenge, no mastery challenge or whatever else a player can imagine.
Min-maxing is indeed a form of creativity but if you go really off beaten then I don’t think crucible is on the cards anymore in most cases.
My point (from my previous post) is crucible builds were posted even in vanilla but lately anything non-crucible is frowned upon a lot. I don’t know if you should point fingers at the community or crucible.
I have also interacted with people who express uncertainty regarding whether they should post their build or not because it isn’t a reliable crucible farmer even when their core build concept very creative. I don’t think people should feel discouraged to post build because of this. I don’t think it penalizes any of the old faces by that much but new faces might feel discouraged if the forum continues to maintain this attitude. This is obviously just my opinion formulated through ancedotes.
Yeah, yeah I said I won’t chip into the discussion. I’m just here to deliver a message that I’ve requested for a “Purge”
Hopefully all of this does get moved to some other thread
Meanwhile the bot is back it posting Top Tier builds. Just look at it go
EDIT:
Naked HC? Really, that’s some serious level of masochism :eek:
Pointing fingers cause something is not for crucible is a a problem and it’s up to the player again to think before pointing fingers.
Take DW bleed trickster. No change in new Cruci due to stacking nature of it unlike BA 2h builds and low life steal. That is a vanilla super dot build through and through unless you wanna spam vines and run around cruci.
