DEE, PRM and some devotion skills do not count in off-hand / left-hand weapon damage

[mi023]

Most devotion skills will count in both main-hand and off-hand (right-hand and left-hand) weapon damage. Even the tooltip does not show off-hand / left-hand damage, it is truely counted in. Only 3 exceptions, Scorpion, Assassin and Korvaak. Their common feature is that they belong to the same skill type, AttackProjectileRing.
As a comparison, AttackProjectileBurst, a highly similar type, including Bat and Falcon, does count in off-hand weapon damage.

Testing Details：
I use mod to change skill damage to fixed 1000% Weapon Damage and 0 other damage. In my case, if off-hand / left-hand weapon damage is counted in, the dummy will take ~30k damage. Otherwise, if not counted in, the dummy will take less than 20k damage.
My off-hand weapon can also cause debuff on dummy (main-hand cannot). So debuff icon appears if counted in.

Results:
Scorpion, Assassin and Korvaak do lower damage and no debuff icons. Others do higher damage and show debuff icons.

_

BTW, here is another off-hand / left-hand weapon damage bug (maybe).
Some modifiers give Replicating Missile and DEE weapon damage, Slathsarr’s Crest, Groble Toxic Effigy and etc.
When casting the two skills, character will use 3 possible animations, right-hand casting, left-hand casting and both-hand casting. For right-hand casting and both-hand casting, only main-hand / right-hand weapon damage is counted in, while for left-hand casting, only off-hand / left-hand weapon damage is counted in.
Most DEE builds and Missile builds use a focus off-hand, which has 0 weapon damage. This means the actual value of weapon damage modifiers is much lower than the paper value.

Tests are similar, off-hand / left-hand uses a debuff weapon, and only left-hand casting can cause debuff icon.

left-hand:

right-hand:

double-hand:

[mi023]

After recent updated on playtest, I test DEE and PRM with 2-handed weapon.
When using 2-handed weapon, the base weapon damage will be count in for right-hand casting and both-hand casting (60% chance). But it is regarded as 0 for left-hand casting (40% chance).

PRM:
Character Sheet shows damage ~3k, at least 2.6k.

right-hand casting and both-hand casting, damage ~3k

left-hand casting, damage ~1.5k, much lower

DEE:
Damage at least 1.4k

right-hand casting and both-hand casting, damage ~1.5k

left-hand casting, damage ~0.5k, much lower

[tqFan]

For real? I wanted to play 2h DEE next weekend Witch Hunter, Level 100 (GD 1.2.1.2) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator (I have some actual character too if needed)

Could you report in Public Test Bug Report section please?
(If you don’t then I’ll report it. Assuming I’ll have it too when I play it).

[Gnomish_Inquisition]

does this mean if you dual wield Sigillis on PRM, it will only count X hand WD when it does X hand casting, and both hands wd when double casting?
(since the WD mod is specific on the weapon)

or does it follow the normal hand cast wd interaction from OP regardless where WD modifier is?

[mi023]

no, always counts two Sigillis (60% WP)

[Gnomish_Inquisition]

unsure i’m getting it wrong, i’m not referring to the modifier effect
but the weapon’s weapon dmg itself
so like, 60%wd/2x modifiers always;

but on right hand casting you get 60%wd from right pistol(green), double hand you get 60% from both pistols, and left hand casting (yellow) you get 60% wd from lefthand pistol

(so if the flats/component or augments are different on the left/right hand you get different amounts of hand dmg added depending on cast cycle?)

[mi023]

right hand casting - 60%wd from right pistol
double hand casting - 60%wd from right pistol (not both)
left hand casting - 60% wd from left pistol

[Gnomish_Inquisition]

ok, cheers
so basically it will matter to have flat aug/component prioritized on right weapon until fixed, since otherwise 40% of time we get slightly less dmg applied on left hand cycles
(assuming build requires different components/augments not providing equal flats)

[Gnomish_Inquisition]

mi023 can you confirm a DEE interaction

@tqFan

d Witch Hunter, Level 100 (GD 1.2.1.2) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator (

on appearance it seems like Blood Burst is affected too

i tried using tqFan’s build, in modded setting so DEE had fixed dmg
then i tried eliminating vile eruption and blood burst, i got 42k dmg on regular hits and 25k dmg on the lesser hits (thus assuming the 25k was left hand cycle), = 17k dmg discrepancy on my setup/via the WD modifiers
But, adding in Blood Burst, i expected discrepancy to remain tho dmg increases, as Burst is Secondary effect not affected by its modifiers/normal interactions; but the dmg discrepancy increased. 71k high 40k lows = 31k dmg discrepancy; a 14k increase (which i’m assuming is from Blood Burst’s innate WD then)

Does this mean Blood Burst is affected by the right hand/left hand cycling 0 weapon dmg application on left cycles/can you confirm this? (or am i perhaps just overlooking something?)

[Bas]

@Gnomish_Inquisition

But, adding in Blood Burst

Was this on the patch? Since they did this:

@tqFan

Blood Burst: modifier now applies to the base skill rather than creating a secondary eruption. Values adjusted accordingly.

So it’s no longer secondary effect.

[Gnomish_Inquisition]

@Bas

Was this on the patch? Since they did this:

@tqFan

Blood Burst: modifier now applies to the base skill rather than creating a secondary eruption. Values adjusted accordingly.

So it’s no longer secondary effect.

ah yes i’m on test patch, that might explain why it’s borking the WD on lefthand cycles then - guess i missed that note

[mi023]

DEE, PRM and some devotion skills do not count in off-hand / left-hand weapon damage

After recent updated on playtest, I test DEE and PRM with 2-handed weapon. When using 2-handed weapon, the base weapon damage will be count in for right-hand casting and both-hand casting (60% chance). But it is regarded as 0 for left-hand casting (40% chance). PRM: Character Sheet shows damage ~3k, at least 2.6k. [20241101065125_1] right-hand casting and both-hand casting, damage ~3k [2024-11-01_065606] [2024-11-01_065626] left-hand casting, damage ~1.5k, much lower [2024-11-01_065723…

Reason:

[Gnomish_Inquisition]

i think this should probably be added to bug report?
Aside from just being weird interaction, it can’t seem intended that you can lose so much dmg 40% of the time from native WD effects let alone WD modifiers @_@

[mi023]

I did post it (as a new topic) in Public Test Bug Report section hours ago, but someone move it here then. Maybe Z, idk, i cannot see the the operation log.

[Gnomish_Inquisition]

ye but i mean the DEE/PRM interaction specifically/casting cycles, since it’s also affecting 2h weapons
I think it got moved from bug to feedback because of the devotion thingy he said that wasn’t a bug?

@Zantai sry for the ping, but this has to be a bug or atleast somewhat unintended right ?

DEE, PRM and some devotion skills do not count in off-hand / left-hand weapon damage

After recent updated on playtest, I test DEE and PRM with 2-handed weapon. When using 2-handed weapon, the base weapon damage will be count in for right-hand casting and both-hand casting (60% chance). But it is regarded as 0 for left-hand casting (40% chance). PRM: Character Sheet shows damage ~3k, at least 2.6k. [20241101065125_1] right-hand casting and both-hand casting, damage ~3k [2024-11-01_065606] [2024-11-01_065626] left-hand casting, damage ~1.5k, much lower [2024-11-01_065723…

DEE, PRM and some devotion skills do not count in off-hand / left-hand weapon damage

mi023 can you confirm a DEE interaction on appearance it seems like Blood Burst is affected too i tried using tqFan’s build, in modded setting so DEE had fixed dmg then i tried eliminating vile eruption and blood burst, i got 42k dmg on regular hits and 25k dmg on the lesser hits (thus assuming the 25k was left hand cycle), = 17k dmg discrepancy on my setup/via the WD modifiers But, adding in Blood Burst, i expected discrepancy to remain tho dmg increases, as Burst is Secondary effect not a…

but losing all WD on 40% of casts because of cast cycling seems like it would be bug section worthy? - on a heavy WD modifier setup like dreegalnore it results in 33% dmg loss when it occurs since it’s doubly affected on PTR

*modded dreegalnore base dmg to have fixed dmg so there was no variable,

98k down to 66k seems relatively impactful/beyond what one would think was normal or intended?

[Zantai]

Yes, this is how the game works and has always worked. The hand that throws the cast references the weapon that’s in its hand. Since the spell cast animation set has a right/left/both animation, sometimes it uses the left, which most of the time carries an off-hand. This might be a surprise to you, but it is not to us.

This has largely been a non-issue over the years as most spammable spells do not have % Weapon damage, or only had low amounts. It’s also why you won’t see PRM on a two-hander with some big % weapon damage mod, for example.

Just like with the big armor and physical damage interaction controversy, this is how the game works, and always did. It is balanced around this behavior. It’s not going to change.

[Gnomish_Inquisition]

appreciate the clarification, and the dev stance/and balance mention

tho it definitely seems like there is more than a few players unaware of it/this “piquant” interaction - we’ll add another/it to the quirky charm of the game along the phys dmg interaction

[mad_lee]

@Zantai

It’s also why you won’t see PRM on a two-hander with some big % weapon damage mod, for example.

[Gnomish_Inquisition]

ye i did notice that mention was a bit on the nose

[mi023]

Thanks for your detailed explanation.