There are different layers of attention. One thing is to play with a character you have: attacks vs attacks, skills vs skills. And another thing is maintenance. Maintenance is building your char and preparing it to the battle. Nullify is the only thing that brings a piece of maintenance into the fight - that’s what people called breaking 4th wall i suppose.
It’s not an issue for me and i also don’t like gameplay simplification. GD gameplay is simple enough already. But i can see people’s point here and why so many get this frustration. They are actual people who want to enjoy the game. Is it really so hard to show some understanding?
Arcane heroes would be tolerable if your buffs toggled back after a couple seconds or something like that. The real problem, even more so than buffs being so integral to most builds, is that you simply can’t spare the time to sit still and reactivate them when there’s 3 dozen monsters clawing at your throat (which in Shattered Realms is all the time). They really aren’t defensible in their current incarnation, even Crucible figured that one out.
That not true, unless you have 12 stacks on you. Or unless you’re a full DPS build. Please stop talking nonsence here, full tank builds cant have 300k DPS.
Well, Arcanists or Nightblades are blessed - they can use Mirror/Blade Barrier and toggle buffs safely. But combos without those classes do suffer.
Depends of monster’s type, they are dying in seconds (not 1 second) in 75, checked it right now with two characters with really average damage. Faster farmers without investing most in defense can just vaporize them. If you are struggling killing heroes in shards xx then go for lower one.
Gotta agree here. The 4th wall argument is completely ridiculous and doesn’t hold up to any logical thought process. It can safely be discarded as meaningless to anything to do with the discussion. Took me maybe 2 seconds to see that.
one thing you can do to immediately counteract the dispel of arcane enemies is to put the toggle buff that gives you greatest defensive benefit into the fastest quick slot bar and key. for example, soldier getting nullified by arcane, then immediately reactivate the field command buff after ~0.5 secs since dispel. because field command give important defensive ability buff to soldier. then the soldier can reactivate more offensive bufff after ~1 secs.
if you’re being surrounded by melee bosses and pounded with projectile from everywhere however, you might need to prepare your panic button defensive skill to cover you in those interval 0.5 secs where your defensive buff got nullified.
you can also manipulate the timing of their dispel to your advantage. kite around so that at the time you got dispelled, other dangerous enemies are in less threatening position/condition so that you have breathing room to reactivate your defensive buff, before pounding the arcane heroes to oblivion (or pound the healers 1st if there are any).
i also want to mention other enemies which might be MORE dangerous than arcane enemies. enemies which have aura that reduces your maximum health (aetherial regurgitator, chthonian oppressor). if they are combined with arcane enemies, i certainly want to focus on those ‘reduce max health’ enemies 1st. since arcane enemies have decently long delay on their dispel.
maybe we should also look examples in other real-time games of how they deal with enemies that can dispel your buffs.
My lightning AAR has ~190k DPS without stacks, and cant “vaporize” them. Especially considering various debufs might reduce that value to ~150k or even less. Even with 12 stacks it takes few seconds to kill them.
Field command isnt really important. There are far more important buffs - the ones with resists, for example (Blood of Dreeg, Word of Renewal, etc.). And every slot on your main skillbar reduces the number of consumables you put on it. Every skillbar slot is precious. If Crate increase skillbar size twofold - it would be another story.
Yes, those are nasty too, if you dont have dispel yourself. BTW, gargoyes’ max HP reduction can be more nasty cause it’s undispellable.
As I said, I don’t mean “1 second” but it’s fast enough to not struggling here in farming shards range. With debuffs/healers/buffers etc. it will be slower ofcourse, kill them first or kite.
Zantai said himself that everything over 60 is “anything goes” so if someone struggles with heroes there - go lower or deal with a challange. I die from arcane mobs/debuffs etc. too but from my own mistakes, I’m trying to learn from it and improve. End game shouldn’t be just walk in the park.
I emphatize with HC players in this case but ticking “hardcore” before creating character should mean you know what you are doing and you are ready for it.
Speaking of which, Voidtouched heroes could really use a debuff aura (VoS /Censure type) that reduces player light radius. I don’t care how, or even if it does nothing else, but I want it.
Truly, the biggest issue here. Monsters should have a voice bit for being dispelled, and shout out their annoyance to you all the time. Take that, cheeky arcanists!
Yes, they are defensible and people have posted several solid arguments as to why. And Crucible is an entire different beast compared to SR and the Main Campaign.
In the Crucible you are always being attacked by mobs of enemies, of course nullification there would be unfair. But in SR and Main Campaign you pick what you fight, you are the one making the advance, not the enemy. And Crucible’s solution is to literally remove them, that’s not gonna happen in SR when you are the one that goes to fight the enemies and not the other way around.
And you only get a ton of enemies on you if you do that, you have to do that on purpose. So it’s really your fault if you have a ton of enemies on you.
Which is too stupid to do anything but laugh at, and a whole bunch of flavors of “git gud”. Neither of these relate to the issues I and others have raised (you can make threatening enemies that don’t completely neuter you in one hit and create tedious busywork for the player).
This doesn’t really hold up when you consider the tiny arenas at the end of each shard and the fact that the entire point of the game mode is to encourage you to rush and clear it as fast as possible. Even in normal mob areas it’s easy to pull more than one group at a time without even trying.
This reminds me of another ARPG I used to play a lot.
It involved long, telegraphed wind ups that if you did not dodge would one-shot you. You needed to break out of your maximum DPS skill rotation and reposition. You also needed to be mindful of how this affected your cooldowns.
The arcane affix in this game and it’s effects are quite similar. You need identify what is going on and then adapt and overcome.
Each scenario wasn’t difficult but instead inconvenient.
I’m firmly in the camp of consequences of inaction.
I actually agree with the OP. Arcane mobs are a big nuisance. I understand the argument of consequences of inaction, but it just feels like these mobs aren’t there to test your skill in any way. Simply a distraction and a very annoying one. Every time I see one of these mobs in HC SR, I adopt the “single out and eliminate ASAP” stance immediately. No skill, no thinking is required. Aim and shoot till it’s dead. Ignore and you may just RIP regardless of your skill. I don’t enjoy fighting these mobs at all.
People often have many different arguments for why this mechanic or that mechanic doesn’t test your skill, shouldn’t be present in the diablo-like. Unfortunately for them, it’s a diablo-like. There are only just so many tools developers have at their disposal for… testing skill… that it falls upon them to make use of them all in some form, to greater or lesser extent.
In the end it isn’t about testing your skill… it’s about seeing if you are paying fucking attention to what’s going on about you which then becomes about you reacting to what’s going on about you.
If you aren’t seeing the issue in time… and reacting to it, in time… then what does that say about your skill?
Who said I’m not seeing or not reacting in time? I said nuisance. That is, not enjoyable tool to check my attention levels. That’s my subjective personal opinion. And if we are comparing to diablo, this is more annoying than those extra health + shielded mobs they had at some point, until players complained so much that both affixed got removed hehe.
The issue I’m seeing is this need to invent such attention checks in the first place. Did players actually complain about insufficient nuisance mechanics? I wonder who suggested it and why?
The question wasn’t meant to be taken point blank literal. I could also ask, “If you are seeing the issue in time… and reacting to it, in time… then what does that say about your skill?” and the question still has the same intended effect. Both versions bring you to the same examination.
The fact that you don’t like it is all well and good - but it still requires as much skill as any other check in the game.
Grim Dawn (and all similar games of this ilk) are diablo-likes. They are always being compared one to the other. Just the way that cookie crumbles.
/shrugs
The varied responses in this thread show sufficiently that the “nuisance” tag itself is highly subjective. Just because you consider it to be so doesn’t necessarily mean that it is (or isn’t). Simply depends on the person.
This particular conundrum brings us around to that old saying, “You can’t please all of the people all of the time, only some of the people some of the time.” This is true for game developers as well as anyone else.
