Actually not only to ask Zantai, but also some builders focused on Crucible and stating that builds with worse time in Crucible are weak or meme builds. There is no offense, but this feeling I get from time to time when reading discussions.
Exactly. Wasn’t me who designed Cyclone and Pyran to beat all-time records (I made the builds though 
). Stats on those two scream(ed) sub 5 even without testing. And now… 7-8 is supposedly the target? Something doesn’t add up…
Seasonal bunch of oupies is the intent. I bet on gunslingers next patch.
Nah, just ignore that cruci-hater guy. 7-8 minutes with banner is nothing.
With the global buff on green and blue items, Next season should be green-based item build. Maybe blue sets build also.
I can’t wait for my flame keeper buff…
Oh please do. Heard chaos gets a universal nerf on enemy resists so I’m betting on darkblaze/rahzin
You also shoud ask Z, why builders with thouthands hours on small arena in crucible still choose it, and not endless SR.
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Don’t spend too much time on this game😊
Otherwise,you will feel depressed after nerf.
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Personally i switched to Cruci-only very fast when ended MC, i didn’t even think about posting builds or ckecking out other builds at that time. Few reasons for that:
- Dungeons are too easy. We need tougher dungeons available in MC. This content, as end-game, is basically wasted in GD which is a shame. Maybe introduce new “stronger” skeleton keys to access stronger rooms?
- SR is random. Half of this game is building, i. e. detailed preparation for the challenge with set rules. SR mutators and boss combos break any rules.
- SR is “chasing mobs” which for me goes against the spirit of this game, where monsters hunt humankind
- Crucible is fast-paced and packs a big variety of monsters while maintaining balance between randomness and determination. Just an all around decent gamemode
Few words about sub X minutes as a balancing point. I think it’s a bad idea. It’s rather pointless actually. If to set a time bar, then it must be sub X minute of clear with guaranteed survival as a balancing point.
Furthermore, Crucible favors builds with strong AoE because it’s a small ass room where everything rushes you. The game doesn’t consist of AoE.
And going from this: i wouldn’t be opposed to the final wave being a single mini-celestial with some back-up. This way Crucible would be a complete gamemode which tests both AoE and single target build power. And at that point it would be more suitable to balance builds around the performance in Crucible. As a bonus: sub 5 minute runs would become relic of the past naturally, without constant target nerfs.
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Actually I wouldn’t mind if the balance shifted from 5-6:30 to 7-8. But it would take rebalancing the whole game, and I see no reason for doing it. GD right now (imo) has perfectly distinctive and diverse gameplay with the current pace. Besides, it’s an RPG; there must be a reward for all that tweaking and grinding - a major boost in performance.
Anyways, 7-8 is not GD as it is right now. Maybe it used to be before AoM. Right now, there’ve been like 10 sub 6 builds posted/updated this patch. I know of 3 or 4 sub 5 ones.
Yes. Gimme that Silver Sentinel I can do 75 with.
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Before AoM it was like sub 30 mins, with the best pilots doing sub 20 on 100-150. After that 130-150 didn’t matter much cause buffs generally don’t expire before you end, as long as you survive.
Also there was no speed meta cause there weren’t a lot of players, and only one guy (Drizzto) would do speedruns cause the other popular builders either did naked cruci (JoV), had a shit pc (fluff), was too focused on hardcore (jajaja) or didn’t do cruci (Chthon). Back then mad_lee was a noob and I was just starting to play the game. The rest of the current cruci builders didn’t exist yet (except Ptiro who still pops in and out occasionally).
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I guess you can tell me as well (since you have big exp in both - Crucible and SR), aren’t you?
P.S: I agree with @banana_peel that focusing only on sub X minutes in Crucible as a balancing point is a bad idea.
You can think it’s a bad idea all day long but if you can’t provide a satisfactory “measuring stick” in return, that does an as good or better job of it than the current measuring stick - then it means nothing at the end of the day.
The “X amount of minutes” is merely the indicator that something might be off, it’s only the starting point. From there the build itself, the gear (even buffs and banners) - all needs to be dissected, analyzed - to determine what is actually enabling the build to achieve the results.
C’mon man! If the build is doing well in Crucible it doesn’t mean automatically it will be OP campaign or in SR too. My point is that taking into account only “X amount of minutes” in Crucible is not sufficient to make a balance changes. We need to check other metrics as well. And don’t forget that most fast runs Crucible videos are the best try in Crucible.
I think it is commonly accepted that ANYTHING that does well in Crucible is going to blow away most anything you can find in Campaign. There is little in Campaign that’s going to compare to 150-170 Glad. It’s pretty much the entire reason that Crucible has become the “stick” for revealing builds that are doing more than Zantai intended them to be able to do. I think it’s even fair to argue that it can be used as a strong indicator for how it might fair in SR (to a degree).
By definition of that, ideally, when Zantai actually nerfs these builds - if he does it right - these builds should be affected only minimally, if at all, in Campaign itself. I think the primary goal is only to remove them from their high perch in Crucible itself.
The statement is false. Not any build doing well in Crucible will blow away enemies in campaign. Believe me, I have great experience with not only standard, but weird and meme builds as well.
P.S: From math logic point of view you made a common mistake - if exists an element x from set A such as P(x) -> R(x) is true (where P() and R() are some properties or statements) then it does not imply that for every y from A it’s true that P(y) -> R(y).
It’s ok Strannik… you can admit it if you like. Noone’s going to hold it against you if we find out that you are really Grohuf in disguise.
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Don’t get me wrong. I’d love that statement to be false, cause that means there will be some degree of separation between campaign focus builds and cruci builds. Can you give me an example of a cruci-designed build that doesn’t di well in campaign? Discounting celestials of course, cause theoretically, the only ones that might have some problems are glassy ranged builds that won’t last when factanking MQ, so they have to do some kiting. Other than that, it’s mostly the same builds, maybe modified to cap movement speed cause there’s a lot of walking. Note: dying to super lucky oneshots isn’t counted as doing bad, cause only the tankiest builds are exempt from that.
Mathematically, yes. But if it is the case that the elements in set B (where P(y)->R(y) is true) is heavily greater than set C (where the opposite is true), then practically set C might as well be neglected unless there is something in that set that’s veey important.
I would consider the question wider - Crucible vs. SR, for example glass canon builds. But on the first thought from recent builds I guess Leopold’s warder caoulbe such weird example.
Can you give an example of such sets?
Let’s agree to disagree.
The current meta. I still haven’t seen any cruci build (in current patch) that doesn’t do well on campaign. You gave one example but it seems the first set is still sufficiently greater. What’s that warder btw? I’m interested in that one.
Cruci vs SR already has a divide between them. The style of building is generally different between SR and cruci builds, apart from some outliers. We just need more vocal people from SR for it to be considered more in balancing.
Btw, before people forget, the warlord retal nerfs on early FG were mainly based on SR.
Well, the guy don’t use components and augments and has already >750 deathes. His build should feel better in Crucible with blessing and banners. But of cause it’s a corner case.
