Torrent? Hand of Ultos? Storm Totem and/or Wind Devil? Storm Witch rings have Chain Lightning procs etc… You have other places you can get AoE for dealing with crowds you know.
Do you also think Raka’Jax is made for spam Primal Strike? 
Do you need cooldown Primal Strike for those things? (except for Torrent obviously) When you can play a caster that doesn’t need to go in melee range and also doesn’t have to invest like 30 skill points into, let’s be honest, pretty mediocre nuke.
Like compare it Doom Bolt on Clairvoyant for example: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/eZPExJGN (a spec that I played and tested quite a bit). For 9 points skill investment you get much better bang for your buck. That’s a proper Nuke and it hits like one.
Noone knows what Raka’Jax is made for. But it’s provocative. It gets people going.
It’s more a case of cd Primal Strike needing those things than the other way around isn’t it?
If you’re at a point where you decide to drop playing something because something else is better, why even consider playing the first build in the first place? Because some people somewhere will enjoy cooldown-based melee Primal Strike even if other builds are better than it and Stormrend enables that.
Yet I have heard many builders on the forums here have made good builds out of it, so evidently it is doing something right.
1 Like
You basically gimp Torrent by 90% by not taking the transmuter. One of the reasons why cd PS is what it is.
Then what’s the point of balancing when some builds vastly outperform others?
Also, Stormrend enables dw PS so it’s natural that players would wanna use it to increase the speed of PS. Because that’s what people usually use dw in melee for - to increase the speed of attacks. So gimping Stormrend out of attack speed and making it only work (air quotes on “work”) for cd PS… just a bit weird.
Raka’Jax is also outperformed by ranged PS spam with Ugdenbog Sparkthrower.
Anyway, my point is not that people should only play top tier builds or whatever. I’m just saying - if anyone is looking to make cd PS better then either 1) put a radius increase mod on Stormrend (but then people will still transmute it and still be better off for it) or 2) change PS itself so that it has bigger radius and put radius penalty to the transmuter.
Nope, unfortunately CD PS is so weak that it’s hard to justify a 30 points investment when you can just have a pure caster and be better off.
Again, not saying there is no place in the game for cd PS. Just saying that in its current state and especially with Stormrender it’s pretty meh and could be improved.
I’ve only seen one I think and it’s not that good. It is not doing anything right. For a caster two-hander it lacks CDR, for auto-attacker it lacks attack speed. That coolbob story about “but it’s for Electrocute builds” doesn’t hold up where you can have better Electrocute (and much better damage/tankiness/qol) with caster’s off-hand/caster’s scepter. This weapon is definitely one of the most useless and disappointing Lightning legendaries in the game.
Every well-created and thought out build should be viable in some aspect. It is natural that some builds will outperform others, you can’t get past that eventuality. What should be done though is ensure that no build outperforms the general majority or “pack” of builds by too big of a margin - that is what balancing is for.
Usually? Sure. But the fact that Stormrend doesn’t feature any attack speed, features cooldown reduction both globally and to the 2 skills it supports should be a pretty big tip-off that it is not intended for spamming it.
See the above, above comment.
I’m saying what I have said so far because using cooldown Primal Strike and not using Thunderous Strike is evidently what the developer intent for the weapon is clearly for according to the weapon’s stats. Advocating that it gets attack speed and work with Thunderous Strike goes against that.
Rather than trying to fit a square peg into a circular hole so-to-speak, why not discuss ways to buff the weapon for cooldown-based Primal Strike if it is lacking?
1 Like
So if it’s meant for CD PS why bother with dual-wielding? I don’t mind making it CD PS weapon, but it would still need improvements. Like for example turning it into a dagger/scepter so it have higher %damage.
Also those links are just players saying about how they used Raka’Jax, those are not guides with videos that prove that it is really viable. Besides, from what I’ve heard from @Nery that spec with Raka’Jax is very underwhelming.
To capitalise on the CDR and Electrocute skill modifiers more than 1 Stormrender?
They are still from builders like you that have posted successful builds in the past. I think I can trust their word when they say that Raka’Jax is fine. Moreover, I think this would start to devolve into another debate on what you consider a “good build” and what others do, as evidenced by:
So, I think we can just stop the discussion here.
1 Like
Off-hand will offer ± same CD to PS and very valuable global CDR that will outweigh second Electrocute mod.
So you can trust their word and not trust mine? 
Well, you can wait to hear from @Nery himself about that.
What if Stormrend got flat Electrocute instead of it’s current flat Lightning damage? Don’t forget as well that it hits with both hands so using an off hand loses you 320% weapon damage every 1.8 seconds or so.
I trust someone who has actually played a build on it and can actually report on how it fares . If you want to convince me that Raka’Jax is really bad and what Nery/Weyu said is false, actually try a build using it and tell me how it fares at farming Legendaries in Crucible, Shattered Realm or against Nemeses/Roguelike Bosses/Lokarr in campaign.
Good point. However, given low base of one hander it still doesn’t look it’s gonna stand up to a caster’s off-hands perks. Because with DW Stormrender spec you are basically forced into melee playstyle with a squishy build (low as, Lightning damage problems with ADTCH) or you can choose to play a caster but then you gonna have no Energy regeneration, no global CDR and not even casting speed from an off-hand.
When you have as much experience with min-maxing and playing different specs some things are obvious, like Raka’Jax being sub-par to basically every other alternative no matter how you look at it. But I understand if you don’t believe me because I haven’t tried it myself. Let’s just wait for Nery to say something.
Didn’t know you and @mad_lee will have that much interest in my testings. So I tried RakaJax Vindicator first in 1.1.4.0 or 1.1.3.2 I think and two weeks ago revised the version. Both times build was using Light Defender, different support items and similar devotions with Korvaak.
Results: build was slightly better before Strom Box nerfs, cause it was important part of the damage. Now is OK, less success in Crucible, still decent clear rate. Times are around 6:25-6:30 on average. Build with Ultos or SR set won’t be better in terms of damage. Stormreaver with same items/devotions will perform way better both offensively and defensively. Stormreaver boost Savagery as spam and Totems. RakaJax have electrocute damage and I was using ofc PS on cooldown, which is pretty underwhelming. Totems are weaker as well, no CD boost from Off-Hand and mod from Stromreaver. Also tried build in SR, it’s not really suited for SR 75/76 farming, too inconsistent.
Conclusion: RakaJax Vindicator is good build, not because of the weapon but despite of it, Vindicator is strong class for lightning damage. Stormreaver version and scepter/off hand will be better and they have similar styles, except for PS, which isn’t adding much being on CD. RakaJax needs CDR to compete and not attack speed, there’s already good 2H ranged weapon fro PS spam, RakaJax should be good for PS on CD.
Stormrend is in similar situation. PS spam, with low attack speed works better than CD version, which was the original intent, tested by several people. So few possible solutions:
-
Buff weapon global CDR and PS damage and make CDR version more appealing.
-
Add attack speed as well and leave to players to decide what version they prefer.
-
Leave it as it is.
Also Stun Jacks CD version is weaker than Spark of Ultos. There’s the option of making Stormrend weapon for Stun Jacks spam+PS on cooldown for instance.
And finally +skills to Nightblade and Inquisitor are weird, being weapon for Elementalist. I suggest +1 to both classes and omit Inquisitor. Or at least +1 one of the two and +1 Nightblade.
4 Likes
That was very concluding, thanks for that input!
1 Like
Could one argue that Stormrend is much easier to get (farmable from totems) compared to random drop M Spark of Ultos hence it would make perfectly sense that is just a “baby version”?
Most of these Totem “specific” items are kinda “meme” anyway so I would not bother too much with such items being “top tier” or not. They can be seen as stepping stone items, nothing more
Then why - as illustrated by Banana in op - spam Stormrend PS is the only Stormrend PS that matters?
It was discussed. It just got crushed under the heavy pages of your “All Builds Are Created Equal” philosophical treaties. 
Words of wisdom, my friend! Did you max Totems or Maelstrom? EDIT: Totems, sorry, I overlooked that part.
Define “matters” in this scenario. I have said and advocated more than once that if cooldown Primal Strike with it is underperforming then that playstyle should be buffed, not Thunderous Strike.
Because my initial comment of…
…was argued against and I presented my thought process otherwise?
Yup Totems are at 26/16. I originally had 26/16 box and 22/12 Tether as well as 21/12 Storm Surge. You advise me to change some Box points into Maelstorm, but that doesn’t improve the build, nor it decrease the performance, was the same.
This weapon introduces a whole new playstyle - 1H Thunderous Strike. In a game where playstyles are a subject of balance people always expect brand new things to be competitive.
Spite is even easier to get. It didn’t prevent it to be very strong.
If i may ask of everyone, let’s stick to the original topic. As title suggests, it’s about Stormrend as (possible) part of 1H lightning melee. Regardless of what anyone thinks about viability of cooldown PS using Stormrend, cooldown PS alone doesn’t make a melee build, even with lowered cooldown.
If you don’t think Stormrend should be a part of lightning melee, you’ve been heard. If you think it already is, please, present a strong build based around the weapon to support your arguments.
just curious,
why does it have to be PS alone to validate the build? CD builds, with very few exceptions are the generally good due to the sum of their parts. Should a CD PS build be very good only using PS?
Hm?
I’m saying that having cooldown PS in your rotation doesn’t make your build melee.
If you manage to make a Stormrend build with cooldown PS, cooldown Stun Jacks and other spells, good for you, but it won’t be melee and it won’t tell anything about the issues lightning melee has.
Maybe someone has a good Stormrend build with cd PS and Savagery? Or even, god forbid, cd PS and default attack?