[Feedback] Warborn Cadence still sucks

@mad_lee Did you try deathstalker relic?

Nope. I don’t think it’s better tbh, we are losing two points in Deadly momentum + flat from the relic so offensively it might even out. We are also losing valuable plus skills and vita overcap/armor so defensively we are definitely losing.

fair enough. I jst really wanna see Deathstalker used more :rofl:

I tried it on Battlemage, it makes the build better. Although it’s hard to say how good can Battlemage be. But hey, Shield Blade Arc have same time as DW Cadence DK, not bad :smile:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


You tested against a superboss of all things instead in the thing you actually test builds and you didn’t even killed it constantly. You died with all three builds and managed to kill it once with DK out of several attempts. You proved nothing. You got lucky with one kill and assumed instantly that DK is the best one when the kill was just lucky at the end of the day.

Actually test Witchblade in Crucible instead of these tests against bosses that are clearly meant to be taken out by builds more tanky than DW.

Gonna just leave this here:

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I vote for turning this into another meme thread to make it a little useful.



although on topic; as some of the above posters noted, there is a distinct lack of crit damage on physical builds outside of warlord variants. (even this is assuming you take DM over oleron) Adding 8-10% crit damage to the warborn proc on the 4 pierce wouldnt make anything broken, and would help nudge the build. Or even perhaps a skill mod adding that amount to olerons rage

battlemage is great as long as its using AAR :wink:

Just throwing in something that might be completely irrelevant.

What about adding a extra target to hit on the regular attacks with Cadence? Only the Cadence proc hits extra targets with Fighting Form or also with the regular attacks?

It’s not only that. It’s a set that can and wants to keep War Cry up 100% of the time. So it’s a waste on both ends.


There was more insight to Zantai’s comment than perhaps you or others give credit for. What with Maul being as terrible as it is (mostly due to the constellation it’s on), viable Physical Damage procs in general are either single target or linear AoEs, the latter of which may as well be single target given the way enemies stack up on melee players. What circular AoEs do exist in Physical Damage either have low radii or high cooldowns - or both. This is generally not the case for other damage types. It has very little to do with Warborn itself - other than the Mythical Gavel losing its single-target Earthquake proc for a shitty War Cry Mod… - and much more to do with overall itemization and Devotion balance. But it may well be a design choice, as your video has very clearly evidenced that Warborn Cadence falls into a respectable range of clearspeed even despite this inherent issue.

Edit: Expanding on this a bit, your video shows you employing strategies of not quite outright killing targets before moving on to the next. This is a viable technique for other characters of other damage types because procs can usually suffice to clear out the remaining 5% of health on enemies. However it is a far slower process for this build, thus increasing the inherent danger the build is constantly in as enemies survive for a longer period of time and ambient damage increases.

I’m curious why you don’t slot/use Doom. It seems like it would help to alleviate this problem slightly.

TIL Callagadra is indicative of the Crucible experience.

Which I noted, which is why I have an issue with maxing it. You don’t need to max it for efficient devotion proccing.

Especially glassy for those that like tanking Ekket’zul volcanoes and Moosilauke shotguns.

It wants to keep Break Morale up 100% of the time. War Cry is a terrible Devotion proccer for things on shorter CDs, hence why it’s presently being used for Ulzaad. With Warborn Helmet, War Cry is on a 4.5s CD with 5s duration on Physical RR. At 12/12, you get the same damage reduction on War Cry as you do on Ill Omens for 10/10, so I’m with the above theorycraft on this one.

This is the only proposed solution I would like to see. I would not want a skillmod to Cadence because it would require you to crit on the third Cadence strike to have any impact, which is really playing the odds. I think it’d be a fitting addition to the Grasp of Unchained Might rather than Warborn. It’d help out Blade Arc, Cadence, and Ring of Steel, all of which could use a slight bump. 15-20% sounds reasonable.

I would also like to see the return of the gavel’s Earthquake proc. It’s a proc that I’ve past-lambasted for being too weak and it is still single-target oriented, but even so, it’s better than nothing.

Not possible…I think. It’d be a modifier to the Default Attack and not Cadence, which is both unintuitive and wacky.

Nice. You should wear this loud and proud, like I do.


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You are clearly confusing my Callagadra tests with my actual tests related to your claims. Here is the thread:

And I knew it before you made that ridiculous claim. And not only you don’t remember that I actually rebuked it long ago, you still have very little understanding about endgame builds relative strengths.

I think answered to that. It’s meant to proc Azrakaa. It also covers for damage reduction when War Cry is down.

Pierce has literally same devotions and aoe and is good 1,5 minute faster on average.

It’s a viable technique here as well because we get half-decent IT ticks that do the job of finishing very low hp targets nicely.

You and Norzan have certain memory lapses when it comes to cases when I am right it seems:

5 seconds cd and 5 seconds uptime at 10/10. Unless CD doesn’t start right after I pressed it’s better to have it at 10/10. Either way, those ten points were elsewhere before (in Exclusive skill, wps, Field command, etc.) and it didn’t make a difference.

You should really try running it yourself before judging my Crucible piloting.

Yeah, but unlike you I don’t just shitpost I actually understand the endgame in Grimdawn

I’m not going to make a habit of defending individuals, but claiming a guy that’s been playing this game years longer than you, has actually dissected the game data to make modded content and has served as a playtester to have less knowledge than you of the game, or endgame as you prefer to call it, is just downright hilarious.

So maybe check your ego at the door, cause it’s getting old.

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Blade Arc and Ring of Steel both have crit mods already. Out of soldier’s spammable skills, it’s only Cadence that really suffers from low crit. And if linear procs are really such an issue, why not just add 60% attack arc and 2 targets to Cadence on the 4pc bonus?

Ah yes, I forgot that Physical Witchblade/DK/Warlord has Belgothian’s Shears, Whirling Death, Blade Spirits, and Azrakaa’s Epoch’s/Will of the Blade’s proc.

…and Blades of Wrath Devotion proc. And Living Shadow Devotion proc.

They’re basically the same builds!

I’ll admit that thread slipped under my radar. But in looking at the builds (which are from, not going Gladiator’s Distinction on Witchblade is just a “bad move.” If you struggle for DA, get it elsewhere. Glad’s is core.

You see, the funny thing is, I have. Because Warborn Witchblade/Warlord is my most played spec of all time. I won’t pretend I get amazing times with it because I so rarely delve into Crucible (and I only play naked Cruci), but I am fully aware of what the build is capable of and how it functions. That you get your bonus flat damage from Soul Harvest rather than a permabuff or that you spread Ill Omens instead of the far-superior Bloody Pox does not create a chasm between Death Knight and Witchblade.

Well it’s a good thing I wasn’t drinking anything this time around.

Which is why the diminishing returns offered by another one wouldn’t skyrocket their damage potential. It’d help, but it wouldn’t be overpowered.

It’s 4.5 seconds CD. Those 9 points are still suboptimal.


This build doesn’t have half of what you bring up as AoE skills and still has a 2 min faster clear time with a generalist set. Besides, blades of Wrath finds a rough equivalent in doomforce or Empyrion’s Light.

Maybe stop playing favourites and actually side someone who has logic, experience and facts on their side?

When I write a feedback on a certain concept it’s usually after hours and hours of testing it. But then someone like Ceno comes, gives me advice on how to improve one of my endgame builds, advice which is just bad - it’s something that I have already tested thousand of times and I know won’t work and calls my feedback “shitpost”, then it’s ok to reprimand me and ridicule me?

You and Ceno might have 10 times more hours than me in this game, but it doesn’t mean that you understand endgame - which is a very specific aspect of endgame - better than me. It’s not a special achievment or a talent, it’s just me playing hundreds hours in the endgame that you have created but don’t play yourself.

How many times my feedback was spot on and got implemented into the game? And how many successful endgame builds did I make? Why the hell do I have to explain myself everytime to someone like Ceno, lol.

Dude, this is not the reason why Pierce melee outperforms Physical melee. Please. How many more endgame builds do I have to produce for you to stop questioning my every fucking statement?

And look closer, I explained why Oleron ~ Gladiator’s belt there. Oleron used to have a lot more flat, remember? That and extra point in Deadly Momentum made difference really small. In that moment of time Oleron belt was better for more well rounded build.

Dude, casting CoF alone is a cancer. Absence of WPS is also huge, it brings down your sustain (because no Reaping Strike) and your AoE (because no Necrotic Edge). I have tested it, recorded the videos, results weren’t even close. If you think that somehow those tests were inconclusive, please, take my DK spec and test it versus your WB spec and compare timers.

Dude, please, I know how to build. I have proven it dozen of times. If you want to present your version, then do so, record a video where it’s clear that your approach is more efficient and present it. I will be happy to agree and make adjustments. Saying “those 9 points are suboptimal” without any proof while I have actually tested it is not moving this discussion anywhere. Besides, I had those points elsewhere before and it didn’t make a difference.

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