Endgame balancing problem

ha… it actually makes me wonder if he’s for real about that. I kinda think he’d be freaking out wondering what in the hell he missed that anyone (or group of people) could actually ace 200.


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16 people 200 shards raid with the help of the program.

You know it’s happening, hehehe.




Hey, can you reveal the secret what is the middle groud for your adjusting and balencing? I’ve been always wondering. It’s got be specific for you. SR6566 SOLO? SR7576 with team? SR80? Or fast sweepover in gladiator 170?

A build that can clear Glad Crucible 150 (the loot at 170 is only marginally better) and/or SR60 is absolutely viable for endgame and gearing up.

In terms of cutting edge clear times, a glad 170 clear in the 6:00 to 7:30 range in the hands of a skilled player is very reasonable. Anything below 10 minutes for an average player is great. Anything outside of that needs to be looked at.

That will vary of course with what sort of build it is (a very safe build should not be clearing as fast as a glass cannon, likewise an AoE heavy build should do better than a single-target build in the Crucible).


Just remind me about my lightning cadence & PS warder build - it feels good in Campaign and Crucible but has big problems in SR.

It brings up something I used to think about.
There might be a conflict in this. I get you want to cover both ends, but I sincerely think views of experienced players should be valued higher.
Here is why.
What I am about to say is from what I have observed from my community, it may not be universal.
In a community, a small bunch of top notch players earmarks the height and depth of a certain class and build. not matter what devs was aiming for, which is normally a bit lower than what’s achieved.
What average players care the most is not what’s the happy ground. What they care more is where to find T0 class/ BD to copy from.
That’s where the conflict is. You may be wasting time on overly-rated average players’ comfort zone.
let me make a quick example:
If all the builds in this forum post with SR 80 in the topic, will averge player be safied to reach SR60 or are they going to find a fine SR80 BD to copy?
Because the bitter fact is without copying an existing build, most people are not capable to reach the near ground of the confort zone. Options would be clear when they cannot go on, copy a good build or drop out.


I’m not sure where you are going with this.

The average player is never going to achieve the same results as experienced players/pros. Average players don’t make it to tournaments, should they be disappointed when they only make Platinum?

Vast majority of players don’t reach endgame, and of those that do, most don’t care about about the cutting edge play the builders do.

We are talking about a niche of a niche of the audience.

But how can you exactly know what an average player may want?
I also was a newbie once, but after some time of practising the goal&aims use to grow.

EDIT: and balancing comes from results of this minority of top-builders.

Something something it’s my job.


That sound reasonable. So now we have no excuses to not understand certain changes.

I agree with the difference of 6 minutes or so glass canon vs same time achieved by tank. Like Octavius state at early FG days. I often use it as example. But some builds that do same time and are glassy haven’t been changed. Like Belgo for example.

What I meant is setting the middle ground closer to what experienced players can achieve. Because from where I see middle ground is not that important for averge players.

But again it’s just my observation from our community.

Most builds already fall in the range I’ve described, so that is already the case. The ones that don’t are the ones we review.

Yeah but we all know what happened to him. :wink:

Btw congrats on selling 2 million copies of grim dawn. How about making another dlc to celebrate this achivement:wink:

@Zantai Builds like Pyran shieldbreaker, Silver Sentinel infiltrator, Venomblade dervish - if they are reduced to 6:00-7:30 speeds on top players/mutators they will no longer be viable for endgame (they hardly are as is). You will either have to adjust the environment again (which is Sisyphean task of buffs and nerfs) or give them defense (which will further homogenize diversity) or just forget they exist.

I’m telling you, there’s just nothing to do in the game.
You talk about timers, OP builds, not OP builds…but I think it doesn’t matter.
The character development ends at level 94. Next, there are no items or ingredients that would allow you to improve the character a little bit more.

The cup of the character’s progress is too low and is reached too quickly.
This game is about the hack-n-slashing and item grinding, but the grind in it makes no sense, all items in all assemblies are 99% the same, the parameters are the same on average. There is no diversity.

I do not see the point of playing different classes, as the development of any character is in the scheme:
Quickly on the “super” ability to pump up to 94 levels, then put on a set, smeared with powders, and that’s it. The development of the character is complete.
Go through the crucible? Go through 50 shards? And why? And for what?
All the items I get during the game, I break without looking. A game where the shot is uninteresting and does not allow you to improve the character further - boring, monotonous and uninteresting.
I spent about 6000 hours in the game, I’m just tired of playing monotonous constructor without purpose and meaning.

And you’re talking about timers. Ha-ha-ha-ha.

And let them reach the late game a small % of the total number of players, but they also need to do something in the game, not to play in the constructor.

The variation in stats is so miserly that it does not play any role. Useful affixes are so few in the total mass, and they do not correspond to the scheme - rarity / power / value, that it makes no sense to look for them. I used to look at and study all the found items, looking for higher statues, but now I gave up

Reconsider the system of affixes and give them to the legendary items to make the effect was more powerful - and that’s all, will take the players farm for tens of thousands of hours.
The result of the efforts will be visible in the same shards, when you with two defaulted affixes will pass the campaign, pick and even pass the crucible and close 50 shards, and with two double-rare BiS affixes will close 70. And if you get into all the BiS slots, then 90. That’s the purpose and meaning of the farming.

And you correct the parameters on the items back and forth, and again back and forth as a Blizzard in the diablo-3.
I’m not interested in playing such a game. And I do not need new content in it anymore. And I will not support you anymore.

Play it yourself.

Only 6000? It’s no wonder the game is such a letdown of variety.

Um, ok, will do?

It has to end at some point or we get the garbage paragon system of Diablo 3 where there’s no end.