Endgame balancing problem

I know right. I feel like I am seeing him after ages.

@ Rhylthar
it is not just the language barrier though. It just when you can play, you can. So explaining about it wouldn’t be necessary. a GT link is all. :slight_smile:

@ mad_lee
Yes, I am always sharing some of your great builds to my community. We mostly build around 75-85. 7576 is a must, and not just with 1 lucky pass, it has to be really viable. How much higher one can get from there depends on each build and player.
And why we make 7576 a target is its loot rate is higher than that of 6566. It is right amount of challege but not too challenging. And we barely play crucible anymore.It was fun before SR, but no as challengable and lootable as SR at all.
Edit 1: there are guys who tries out on higher levels over 90. But it is tiring and mostly meaningless, most of us wont do it.

@ Chthon
I’ll have to discuss with our core BDers about this matter before I can answer. There’s hope.
I am always lurking at this forum. and facilated local translation at the release of F.G.

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Well then… you guys need to be sharing more (Zantai nerfs be damned) and convincing others to switch to SR. That way everyone can stop crying about him balancing against the Crucible and start blaming him for SR balancing. That should mix things up for a bit at least.

As you note here:

You don’t seem to really mind much Zantai’s balancing approach anyway. Maybe you just need to convince the rest of the Chinese community it might be for the better in the long run?

If Zantai ever read this post, I would suggest rather than focusing on those that are in line for a nerf. Bringing more buffs for those in the cornor sobbing.@ powbam
Edit 1: they really have done a great job at balencing. There’s always some way to bring a certain class or bd built around a certain set or a certain skill to SR lvl 80.
What’s tricky is, it takes a great mind that can catch the epiphany. For a lot of stuff It works until it’s proven.

I always experienced that it helps if the links to such builds gets posted. It helps the devs identify where the build is lacking and buff it accordingly.

What a rollercoaster of a thread. Had no idea the train stopped at meme station.

It’s effectively limitless because nobody’s going to reach the end. ABC is correct in that the scaling stops at 200, although I’ll happily add more if someone miraculously beats that.

Crucible 170 is roughly SR40-50. Shattered Realm goes beyond Crucible difficulty.

Unique rewards stop at SR60. Anything beyond that is fair game for unfair boss comps and quick deaths. Builds that can reliably go beyond SR60 should not be asking for buffs. :wink:

That’s how you end up with enormous power creep.

There has to be a happy middle that is aimed for and the few outliers need to be brought in to that middle. If players point out both ends of the spectrum to us, we can then make use of that data to address the issues and achieve a healthy build diversity.

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Can’t help but the following meme came to the mind


ha… it actually makes me wonder if he’s for real about that. I kinda think he’d be freaking out wondering what in the hell he missed that anyone (or group of people) could actually ace 200.


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16 people 200 shards raid with the help of the program.

You know it’s happening, hehehe.




Hey, can you reveal the secret what is the middle groud for your adjusting and balencing? I’ve been always wondering. It’s got be specific for you. SR6566 SOLO? SR7576 with team? SR80? Or fast sweepover in gladiator 170?

A build that can clear Glad Crucible 150 (the loot at 170 is only marginally better) and/or SR60 is absolutely viable for endgame and gearing up.

In terms of cutting edge clear times, a glad 170 clear in the 6:00 to 7:30 range in the hands of a skilled player is very reasonable. Anything below 10 minutes for an average player is great. Anything outside of that needs to be looked at.

That will vary of course with what sort of build it is (a very safe build should not be clearing as fast as a glass cannon, likewise an AoE heavy build should do better than a single-target build in the Crucible).


Just remind me about my lightning cadence & PS warder build - it feels good in Campaign and Crucible but has big problems in SR.

It brings up something I used to think about.
There might be a conflict in this. I get you want to cover both ends, but I sincerely think views of experienced players should be valued higher.
Here is why.
What I am about to say is from what I have observed from my community, it may not be universal.
In a community, a small bunch of top notch players earmarks the height and depth of a certain class and build. not matter what devs was aiming for, which is normally a bit lower than what’s achieved.
What average players care the most is not what’s the happy ground. What they care more is where to find T0 class/ BD to copy from.
That’s where the conflict is. You may be wasting time on overly-rated average players’ comfort zone.
let me make a quick example:
If all the builds in this forum post with SR 80 in the topic, will averge player be safied to reach SR60 or are they going to find a fine SR80 BD to copy?
Because the bitter fact is without copying an existing build, most people are not capable to reach the near ground of the confort zone. Options would be clear when they cannot go on, copy a good build or drop out.


I’m not sure where you are going with this.

The average player is never going to achieve the same results as experienced players/pros. Average players don’t make it to tournaments, should they be disappointed when they only make Platinum?

Vast majority of players don’t reach endgame, and of those that do, most don’t care about about the cutting edge play the builders do.

We are talking about a niche of a niche of the audience.

But how can you exactly know what an average player may want?
I also was a newbie once, but after some time of practising the goal&aims use to grow.

EDIT: and balancing comes from results of this minority of top-builders.

Something something it’s my job.


That sound reasonable. So now we have no excuses to not understand certain changes.

I agree with the difference of 6 minutes or so glass canon vs same time achieved by tank. Like Octavius state at early FG days. I often use it as example. But some builds that do same time and are glassy haven’t been changed. Like Belgo for example.

What I meant is setting the middle ground closer to what experienced players can achieve. Because from where I see middle ground is not that important for averge players.

But again it’s just my observation from our community.