Pet builds are naturally more safe, and historically predesposed for deep SR clears. Nightblades, on the other hand, are relatively fragile. And it’s a melee build, in an ARPG, so, you know the drill…
If you want to play HC chars, just play those. Plenty of tanks in the game, some quasi-tanks even were on previous top20. The list isn’t be-all end-all of GD.
According to this interminable thread an average rolled build would be 25% weaker? I know not having maxed attack speed really has a big impact.
Difference between 190 % AS and 200 % AS is 200/190 and that is 5 %…
Sure there are other stats but you will not be on average. You will be between average and max if you play a bit…
It’s almost like this current list has “(HC Selection)” in the title with certain builds approved by a pretty reputable HC player.
Also I wonder how many times it was explained why pet builds didn’t make it back then…
Forum is really lit this month with stone cold logic
Keeps Gnomish entertained lulz
The other stats all multiply together to give a much larger difference at the end than the sum of the individual parts.
On average, you will yes. Depends on what drops. A lot of the items are not easily rerollable, and some of them are going to be quite rare just to get the item.
If your alkamos rings are bottom 10% items, and some of those rares also low roll, you can reroll the set items as much as you want, you’re going to be below average.
Unfortunately this isn’t really possible for a lot of builds. You want specific things to cover holes in the build. Take one of the top 20 builds and remove the affixes from the greens. Most of them will have holes in their resistances, well below 3k OA and other problems.
Budget builds can do this, Top 20 builds can’t.
As I’ve said many times, the Top 20 builds are still good, just don’t expect to get the times shown because even a perfect pilot is not going to have close to the rolls shown. You’ll still have a good time with them.
Sure but it is not drastic. And I went with 10 % difference in AS which is actually quite drastic…
It is not an issue if you won’t take all mins…
You should have generated just one item normally for each slot. Do 5-10 SR 90 runs and then compare. But you didn’t…
Feel free to make your own video about it. I know at least half of the people here have youtube channels.
I don’t and don’t plan changing that.
Time to sleep for me…
Fair enough. Sleep well 
yes sir 
- appreciate the indulging and (hopefully) no hard feelings,
anyway, since for whatever reason you insist(ed), i had to do more screenshots
this does not translate to 26% more dmg on savagery hits/swings etc… - if you think so something is off somewhere/i can’t explain nor understand where you’re trying to pull that increase from
(it’s not how WD or savagery scaling works)
idono, i’m not even trying to “put this to bed” at this point so to speak, just, genuinely trying to understand where that huge discrepancy/26% number came from/how/where it was reached because i find is so confusing
(also because it’s so huge when it obviously should be much smaller even under best circumstances)
Just wanna say that to me the notion / sentiment that the Top 20 builds should for some reason represent average rolls and not a person playing the game for a long time and committing a lot of time to a build but some casual (like Spraynerb who doesn’t know how to level a Trickster) already doesn’t make any sense.
There are actually commited players. I talked with one yesterday. He grinded 2 perfect double rare Malkadars for his build for months.
What a weird discussion. 50% damage difference would mean something like having a 1500% damage modifier instead of 3000% 
Sure some things compound, like damage modifier and flats, but even then… that’s not going to be 50% difference, ever (or 25% or whatever crazy number).
Sense it makes none.
to be fair i think it’s ok to “assume”, initially that it might be avg’ish attempted rolls, - but that should immediately be cleared up if reading the procedure explanation etc 
i also don’t think it would be bad if we could make it based on avg rolls, but since we don’t have an avg seed, let alone for every item, i can also understand them not wanting to try mess with which stats to avg/aim for, and it’s easier to just pick a “high”
Nah, no hard feelings towards anyone. Like I said, we’re just disagreeing on methodology and the actual number. I think we all agree that the GDStashed items are not realistic. Or at least I hope we do.
I don’t know where you got that number from either.
0 seed vs GDStash actual build is 46% difference in sheet DPS. The average vs GDStash should be 23%.
If the build is only possible for people who grind for literal years, or cheaters, then why make the thread at all? I’ve done some truly silly grinding for items, and even I wouldn’t be willing to attempt to get close to the items used in that Trickster.
It’s a DPS difference, not a difference between one hit and another. Damage per hit x attacks per second x hit chance.
Neither the GDStashed build, nor the 0 seed build have maxed attack speed, and the 0 seed is going to miss about twice as many attacks (10% vs 20%) as the GDStashed one with a focus on high OA and OA% rolls (3086 OA vs 2859)
it is not, that’s it
both on base/“sheet” numbers it would never be that much, but also on direct value “as you can”/literally showing you GT avg vs top20 save ingame
it’s 5%, which fits considering save is not actually maxed rolled; and max roll would be an 8%(roughly) difference
i think so, i feel like the (general) main difference “on that very specific point”, is just the degree of unrealism or rather the impact/significance it has ingame, whether that variable is then “acceptable” or not
(and to some it would be unacceptable by default just because GDstash was even used )
for me atleast, it’s also just not the main point i’m addressing atleast, but rather a “key element” contributing to the perception of how bad that variable is/making the list/saves more unacceptable than they deserve
I’m using only in-game numbers.
Sheet DPSx0.9 hit chance for GDS build: 178,389.9
Sheet DPSx0.8 hit chance for 0 seed: 122,660.8
178,389.9/122,660.8 = 45.43% more DPS.
If you want to remove the hit chance and just say both builds never miss, which is true for campaign bosses, then it’s
198,211/153,326 = 29.27%
i dont’ understand the hit difference?
Gt avg has 3200 OA, it’s well above 100% hit rating against everything?
My turn to be confused. I think we’re using different numbers. What is GT average?
