I had no intention of building a Korba trickster but now I just may. There’s no way it’s that hard to assemble. Hardest part is Alky rings. Oh, and max rolled Korba set; ofc…
no it isnt. i bet 100 bucks if you ask almost anyone here they will help you out in some way. The problem is that you and Paikis are just wrong, horribly so, and we are pointing that out. No one has anything agaisnt you or PAikis personally.
But it is, and Paikis lied to you that it isnt. If you put together one of the top 20 SC builds for the first time you will be weaker than advertised sure but even accepting a 25 % dps loss (which is wildly overestimated) go and take all the clear times in the Top 20 SC post and multiply them by 1.25 heck even 1.3. clearing SR 75-76 in 6-7 mins will net you so many legendaries / MI’s per hour that finding upgrades becomes inevitable
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From Paikis video
Change in DPS 190983/147101=1,298. That is 29,8 %. Not 50 % And those are unreal numbers for min items. And this build is unusually sensitive to flat damage I would guess.
So from average it would be like 15 % off to top 20 Korba. And you will be above average. So 10 % is easily obtainable. And I think that Korba is actually the worst case scenario due to its flat dependance… So for most builds less than 10 % easily…
But still don´t get that high difference for min rolls in game considering Gnomish post…
5 Likes
Logging in to add my 2 cents as a “self-found” player:
I have my issues with stashing items, but it’s not that the build’s end results are unrealistic (e.g. “Top 20”, most of the “SR 80 showcases” in the builds section etc).
You can find good affixes on greens and you can find lots of purples that are well-rolled.
Especially if they are boss-MIs and don’t have crappy affix bias.
As long as the affixes are single-rare, on bias and generally interchangeable with other affixes, it’s not a huge deal.
I think some items (Alkamos/Magi rings, some MIs with bad affix bias and/or drop rates…) are still too hard to obtain to count on good rolls, but:
a) that’s an issue that should be addressed by changing the drop rates/biases
b) high or low-rolls on those slots don’t change the performance that much. Even if you lose 10-15% performance and can’t facetank XYZ anymore, or complete SR a minute slower, who cares. That’s just the dumb “social media dick measuring contest” anyway.
My issues with stashing (for the record, noone cares):
a) It compromises multiplayer and trading. Even if nobody who stashed would trade, those players would be out of the pool of potential trades and the fact that it is possible erodes trust.
b) It shifts the build/showcase priority heavily towards benchmarking/speedrunning - rather than focusing on the way to get there. That’s nice for ppl who already have 1k+ hours, but terrible for newcomers, who are only shown the shiny bauble at the end and not the hard road to get there.
It’s usually “equip Lokarr Set and level to 100, then draw the rest of the friggin’ owl”.
And as such, the Top 20 thread is filled with questions how to obtain/level X.
c) Subjectively: Item balance from devs and item changes based on player feedback are almost exclusively coming from the angle of stashed builds, not farmed builds.
Changes and improvement to lvl 20-80 gear, to item biases, to crafting and such are rare compared to changes that are “+x% to specific item set”.
Which makes sense, given that the most prolific feedback comes from players who test a lot, and who generally skip the grind to test more.
(Don’t blame’em, farming mats and swapping components and such is a nightmare).
d) sometimes players forget what’s realistic and post “insane” builds with multiple double rares with very specific affixes, e.g. multiple “Dreadlord’s” of whatever jewels because they skipped all life leech on the devo map. So you get a somewhat bad build carried by specific affix combos to make up for the deficits.
For the latter point, I think the darkest age of that is over. The low point would have been ~4 years ago. Most builds I see now are pretty down to earth.
5 Likes
Seemingly due to Paikis using an older version of the build; the Korba character has 90% chance to hit, while Yesnt has 80% chance to hit, which would then also impact the dps number a lot. But any actual player would happily use a slightly worse item if it gave them the proper hit chances.
I am sure there is an error in the video and apples to apples are not compared…
And doing just one run in SR is questionable…
I don’t disagree with you but I also think that the devs have done a good job in this regard. They understand the above point.
This is perhaps a subject for a different thread entirely, but it’s better for Crate to balance for the ultrahigh-end than not. If Crate outright ignored the high-end of things, the discrepancy between what was possible and what was being designed for would fall further and further out of wack, and eventually feedback on all sorts of things - enemy design/difficulty, quest design, etc. - would be unreliable.
So it’s not about “GDStashers play the game the most and therefore provide the most feedback.” It’s that knowing (and controlling) what the absolute maximum in the game can be is truly helpful in judging where the game’s balance should be for the purposes of everything else.
And, of course, this is really only on the subject of “what gets nerfed in a patch” - to which it must be pointed out that, historically, more things get buffed each patch than get nerfed.
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He obtains 55 % in that video by multiplaying it by savagery numbers but they multiply yessnt as well and you still would not get 55 %… That is a math error by omission and numerical error by getting wrong that 55 % anyways…
Time 13:40 in the video.
Adding the hit chances gives us the same 46% he was using
I’m not at all claiming it was done intentionally, but clearly it is a big error
But hit chances against what enemy? This is not a constant… And it varies a lot.
1 Like
I have no idea, he pulled out those numbers from somewhere, I think against celestials?
Against Calla I think. Very special singular case… And not representative at all of normal gameplay even in high SR…
Every single number taken is the worst possible scenario. Which will never be realized. And it is on a very sensitive build for these numbers…
I don´t think that with non DW melee you could actually get such differences even in worst case like this. But DW melee is sensitive to these numbers. That is actually a new knowledge I would guess…
And not used for balancing decisions! 
2 Likes
i’ve no clue, and it being so far out is exactly the dang point i’m literally illustrating 
It takes more effort, to get even close to the far out low rolls Paikis is referring to (multiple desired main stats min rolls) - than it does to get above avg rolls, let alone regular rolls; or even some decent high rolls…
Making it more unrealistic to expect his chosen example/argument, than a couple of above avg or even high rolls - i spawned 100 alkamos, and didn’t get a single double dmg min roll let alone triple desired min roll, but got multiple above avg and even some top20 versions…
Which has been part of the point all along, even if you only run alkamos “once”(per ring), you will not with any statistically reasonable likelihood, min roll them to this degree as argued - let alone across 14 gear slots “at the same time”, because “on avg” you will get about avg rolls overall± couple %
unsure if that clarified it or just made it more confusing/ended up merely repeating the same part that was misunderstood 
maybe it should 
we learned we used different build btw
i was using the updated 1.2.1 for my GT avg vs top20save display, Paikis was using the old (way different setup) from 1.2(done right before Z released the phys changes that shook up everything hence rush 1.2.1 trickster update)
the difference in the setups at direct comparison is huge, but the overall difference still is about the same from GT avg vs ingame (5-7%)
Main difference/or rather where paikis gets most of his dps loss (even if we ignore impossible 0 seed) is simply 1.2 setup has like 250+? less OA than 1.2.1 version, attributing to the "hit rating"part of dps loss when checked against Calla
(tho i don’t understand where the kaisan issue comes from unless it was purely 0 seed and not avg)
his 1.2 Trickster, Level 100 (GD 1.2.1.2) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator
updated 1.2.1 Trickster, Level 100 (GD 1.2.1.2) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator
Kaisan issue?
Bad link…
in his used comparison among differences there wasn’t just a dps loss on celestial but even kaisan nemesis at 2700 DA,
should be fixed
Why was there no Lethal Assault on build 1.2? Such a damage loss…