Saw it, responded to it. Still Anasteria’s thoughts on this are on the table, I think.
That’s called milking the series. Game after game until people lose interest. There’s a point to stop.
Why not? Because there are people not interested in it? There are also people interested in it, what now then? Should they be ignored or accept the copout, non-conclusive ending?
And that’s why you must have the third backup plan. Or… you can construct a carcass of the story beforehand, follow it and everything’s good. Not releasing milk until people are tired of drinking it.
I guess I’ll have to add my vote to the “I need it” camp then. As much as I love Grim Dawn and it’s definitely one of my favourite games, Act 4’s finale is incredibly weak and unsatisfying. I’m fine with the idea of this being a large war that spans more than one game (providing it doesn’t get milked to death), but I at least hope that after the expansion/s are done ‘Grim Dawn 1’ gets a more satisfying finale than the “k cool you killed the big thing bye” we currently have.
I understand that Act 4 ends this way because it was probably never meant to be the actual finale, but I hope we do eventually get a definite end to the current sequence of events (reclaiming the capital, I assume) with a proper final boss build up, boss music (I still find it odd that the warden of a prison gets this and yet the giant hell vagina doesn’t) and an ending cutscene after we’re done stabbing whoever/whatever it is in the face. It doesn’t need to be “this is the Aetherial overlord and once he’s dead they all die out and we win”, but I’d at least like some sort of big bad I can kill and then feel like “alright, this is it, Grim Dawn 1 is done, I’m satisfied” afterwards.
ok, but you did not want it open ended, so what end is not open but also not ‘happily ever after’ ?
Presumably you do not want to be defeated either, so not sure what that leaves us with…
However, some sort of conclusion is necessary for such a plot-heavy game, otherwise, it will just hang in the air.
so ending in ‘we have done enough to secure our home and for the first time look at rebuilding, reuniting and pushing back’ is not enough ?
It pretty much is where I expected we end up
But what if you are presented with the odds you can’t beat? It’s a neverending cat-and-mouse game with a stalemate?
possibly, but I was more going with, we won’t have a decisive victory by the end of the GD storyline rather than by we can never win
Now, this progression, if continues to expand like you said, should come to the point of the character meeting such powerful deities as gods, for example.
I hope we never kill gods, we should be too weak for that. Kill their servants and close the seal etc. but not kill the god.
Thanks for the clarification! I had forgotten that.
Indeed, there is a point it needs to stop, but you can always fill in the ending. You’ve already done it, or at least capable of doing it based on your previous posts.
IMHO, the point it ends is when Crate sees people have lost interest by not buying more expansions. Based on Zantai’s post (and clarification) there really is no way for humanity to purge the powers that have invaded Earth. They just need to survive and make the best of it, much like The Walking Dead.
In the end, people can just finish the story how they want to. You are certainly capable of it.
Edit: IMHO, things that get their rushed endings with a nice tidy packaged don’t provide a satisfactory ending. It’s all tied up too soon. I’ve seen it in TV shows that suddenly end, and then an ending is crammed in. Just falls flat. I’d rather just make my own ending based on the story, even if I come up with no formalized ending.
Until heart attack, cancer, stroke, accidents and so on It is called LIFE also…
But it is up to them how and when to “finish” the story. I dont mind to have open ended story and I dont mind very grim or uncertain “end of story” And if they are going to ““milk”” it. I would be glad…
I’m fine with a few cliffhangers, but i do hope that certain cliffhangers become clear/solved etc. By that i am speaking more for side cliffhangers, the main story about otherworldly powers trying to invade Cairn (Aetherials and Ch’tonics etc.), i could see that there’s always a threat. Ch’thon will always try to break though the Ch’tonic void and it’s really rare for a Aetherial to die. Let’s not forget there’s the gods and the different realities and worlds that exist. I could see Crate using certain story elements for other games that take place in the world of Grim Dawn. So cliffhangers are fine just as long as some become more clear.
Excellent points, gentlemen, allow me to counter-argument, though.
It puts us with grim cold ending where the threat still looms in the air, and the entire world is in shambles. How specific it is, I will write down in next posts below.
That’s exactly the ending I’m searching for, actually, only with a few minor adjustments. For example, they sealed the gate, Aetherials are barred from entering this world. However, thousands of other Aetherials are still here, in the world of Cairn, albeit trapped.
As for Chthonic problem, I believe someone or something is controlling the cult behind the scenes. When he\she\it is dealt with, his influence over the cult should cripple, and people will start to free themselves. However, there are still wicked people out there, who will just carve a person for fun, still people out there, whose will is too weak to break the vod influence, etc. As such, the cult still remains, but there is a great hope it will disappear after a while, perhaps many years later.
This is the bittersweet ending, where humanity pushed back, more or less won. But with catastrophic results upon their world and years of recovering. Maybe even with a great sacrifice. Chthon is still out there, and Aetherials are still roaming the land, albeit very weakened. However, humanity actually won, even it was a bit of pyrrhic victory. See, it feets thematically and concludes the events of Grim Dawn. Here’s when rebuilding also comes into play.
I agree. Here’s what I personally think about it.
We can’t kill gods. But we can weaken them. We can also… cure them, if you catch my drift. I suspect Korvaak may fight with Chthon in the future, but whose side will he take…? Also, chances of victory for humanity rise greatly in this case.
There is no need for a consumer such as myself to fill the ending, because if a writer is capable, he can pull off a satisfying conclusion without relying on other people. It’s just plain lazy. And the lack of creative merit as I was saying. I want Crate to show me they are capable.
But it’s not true. Remember, in the past there were 100 Arcanists sacrificed to seal off Log? We just walked there and purged him, simple. We also destroyed Warden, Van Aldritch… and a whole ton of other creatures. That means humanity is capable to repel the threat. As for other means to conclude the war - read above. It’s really not that hard.
Rushed ending certainly come into the light, if you think about it. However, it’s a losing choice between this and milking the series. That’s why you need to comprehend your own story before doing anything. That’s why planning and backup planning is important. Stuffing expansion after expansion focusing only on gameplay in a game, that relies upon it’s plot and lore, or at least positions itself as so, is no answer. It’s soulless. Here’s why I told you about a point to stop. Competent developers should think about it, and so far, I consider Crate competent.
Strategic planning deals with this as well. I also must remind you about roughly making the story sketch beforehand and following it, making adjustments here and there. It’s actually possible, yes.
Yes, exactly! That’s why we need them to show they can actually pull of a decent ending, see?
Milking the series will kill it along with a large number of it’s userbase. Have an example in constant streams of AAA games, which play like shit and feel like shit too.
Thank you for reminding me, that, aside from the main story, there is A FUCKING TON of side content, subplots as well. They need to fill in them too, otherwise we are talking about literal plotholes here.
My statements about you completing the story was to address your repeated concern that if Crate doesn’t complete the story themselves, then it would never be completed.
If Crate devs won the lottery, split it, and closed down the company and left; you could finish the story yourself. You could complete it in the way that you like.
Likely, it never will be, actually. All of user-created content, especially plot-wise, if not approved by developers, is fanfiction-tier level. The ability to create good plots with dramatic and interesting development is hard to find these days, so this comes into play too. Basically, even if devs approve of these plots, they still would be judged by people, the fans. If they find them bad enough, then that’s it.
If Crate does this, that just means they were not interested in making a good-written ending in the first place, so that will put them in the incompetent section of game industry, at least in my personal book. See, if something happens to them, a legacy must be created. The inability to adapt and maneuver in such situations means that they didn’t think this far ahead, which can prove to be a fatal mistake, especially considering in what industry they are working.
Regarding discussions about limited faction choices for Necromancers, I noticed that there is a Kymon’s medal - the Defiled Chosen Star - about which the note says:
“Tarnished by the powers of the enemy, this medal nevertheless can serve a righteous purpose.”
Swap ‘medal’ for ‘human’ and you have your answer…
When exactly will your extension is ready? In the summer, or are you one extension, going to do the whole year? It’s just, laugh laugh, and even the second, then it will be, and as I understand it, where it was said, and about the third!
I really hope the expansion addresses the current meta in some way, whether as a kind of in-joke or otherwise. Titan Quest handles this beautifully with the goatman diaries (among similar easter eggs), for example.
It would be nice if the game addresses why the Kymon’s Chosen/Death’s Vigil factions always seem to do better story-wise if you join their opponent (like if you join Kymon’s Chosen, Death’s Vigil always manages to claim the Tomb of the Archon and vice versa), why Fabius only shows up if you’ve pretty much already wiped out Cronley’s Gang (including Cronley himself), or where all the beasts of burden are kept (because the game has a LOT of wagons).
Bonus points if the player him/herself and their methods are referenced.
I’m with you. I’d also like more references to the destroyed battle wagons too…lots of canons and big guns lying in ruin. I’ve almost toyed with making a mod that tells the story of a undiscovered cache of cyberpunk weaponry
