GrimSheet: Endgame Build Table - ETE edition [v1.41]

[Ulvar1]

Same here. I would just play crucible instead

[AlkamosHater]

Most people likes camera exploit and Zantai said they will not change it due to it. In deep SR it gives more possibilites for squisher builds and open additional gameplay. For tanks or meeles just go at start into opposite side of the room, die there so bosses going to change positions and you can agro abuse them without camera. Sometimes it is needed few times, enjoy 30 minutes boss rooms.

I am against camera thing only in presenting builds in like 65-75sr (very deep shards are okay, it’s additional challenge for only few players) because it can bait less experienced players into inconsistent build on “normal basis”.

[grey-maybe]

Ooh, clear-cut indexing. How inaccurate could it be?

looks like i’ve chosen color in Reqs and Criteria right. Cool.

maybe adding another column for average CR times would be smth good for refference

as Stupid dragon has already said, we simply do not posses enough data. I can ask some builders about some builds, but like imagine me asking banana about the average timer on the build he played in June. If builders start to link average timers and it becomes a trend then we will change it. Right now simply not enough data.
For the same reason we decided not to create a metric for sr75-76 speedrun (not only because of that though).

Hot damn, SR 75 not worth a single point? I usually don’t run builds past that, unless they’re brick walls.

After i completed SR75-76 with faction gear + budget MI’s DK, I view SR75-76 as MC with extra step (ultimate elitist move, apparently.)

One Q, maybe I’ve missed it on rules, can you change items or devotions for different challenges or is it one and done build?

Also variant with more Stun Res for SR. Or should it be precisely the same character?

pretty much what Dmt has said, look at RetalAbuser’s chaos AAR for instance.
you can freely change skills and augments/components though - that won’t be considered as s different build.

Gear rarity should be a factor in a build’s performance score. Here is my thought process:

i thought of banning all DR items except for weapons and banning magic/rare sufficex with specific skill bonuses (e.g. nightblade’s for +2 to bs/ss). But then i just forgot about. Maybe we will add that requirment in the future.

If a build with an epic set can complete all of the same feats as a build with a legendary set, is the epic set build not more impressive?

Then I’d like more points for not using sets as I make a lot of non-set meme builds with greens.
Isn’t not using a set impressive ?

Well, that’s not the thing I care about, but I can see why some people can be conserned about it. So let’s do like this - table provides huge chunk of raw data. You can simply not use our metric, and instead, use this info to create your own. At the end of the day - it’s all about picking measurment system.

you mean you finally want to decreep top power back to 5m+ or 6m+ crucible timers?

broke gamedesigner: analysing 150+ builds to decrease their performance
woke gamedesigner: adding Callagadra on 170th wave.

CR times are more dependent on piloting performance.

It’s still super important. You can compare @banana_peel runs with old PC and new one.

i think i have explained everything regarded certain “dependancies” in Reqs and Crit paragraph.

So do we get bonus points for not using camera abuse? Because even Sr 75 is much harder by not using it.

the way i see it - there’s literally no difference between agro abuse (pulling bosses one by one w/o camera rotation) and camera abuse. So unless you’re fighitng all boss arena simultaneously, i consider sr75-76 to not be worth a point.

[grey-maybe]

I love the ranking and the entry criteria you chose (i.e. 6 min CR cuts down builds that don’t strive for damage at all but not too hard so you can still squeeze in your memes). It really motivates me to

• push my builds in SR that I usually ignored to get more points
• fine-tune the builds that are close to meet the reqs but not there yet
• test the builds that I have only in Grim Tools form

Thanks!

Same, I had never bothered to push SR before but dragged the vindi on the list to a couple SR90 kills for those sweet gamifcation points. My crucible game is awful still so pushing those times isn’t going to get me anywhere soon

Waiting for more builds from you then. and thanks, that actually mean something to me.

[Valinov]

That was more or less what I was referring to. Not rotating the camera, then moving toward the bosses causing full agro…

Yeah for real. Cant you just choose not to rotate the camera?

Dont inadvertently get the devs to remove the option of camera rotation because you dont like the exploit in SR, because for those of us who actually love camera rotation for what it brings to the table outside of camera abuse this would be a huge bummer.

Camera rotation is one of the characteristics unique to Grim Dawn that sets it apart from its competitors, among other things. Whenever I play any other ARPGs, i find the lack of ability to rotate the camera super annoying. Were spoiled in GD, with so many great freedoms. It would be a sad day to lose camera rotation.

I wasn’t talking about the feature itself, just the weird effect it has on monster agro. I wish more aprgs had camera rotation

[grey-maybe]

That was more or less what I was referring to. Not rotating the camera, then moving toward the bosses causing full agro…

allright then, if you record like 2 or 3 full runs with full agro - i’ll consider that worth a point or two.

[AlkamosHater]

In my opinion some honorable point may be added for pulling all bosses in 75-76 but only if build was not tested higher. Being able to handle all bosses at once means build can go way higher than just 75.

[grey-maybe]

In my opinion some honorable point may be added for pulling all bosses in 75-76 but only if build was not tested higher. Being able to handle all bosses at once means build can go way higher than just 75.

well said.

[Dmt]

In my opinion some honorable point may be added for pulling all bosses in 75-76 but only if build was not tested higher. Being able to handle all bosses at once means build can go way higher than just 75.

well said.

Please no. I’ve seen enough of those NO AGGRO ABUSE SUPER PUPER DUPER MIGHTY BUILDS fighting 2 Zantarins and Laria

[AlkamosHater]

Well, that’s true too In theory there can be a rule like some bosses (Kaisan, Reaper, Iron Maiden, Grava etc) must be killed but it would be just better to go for 85 shard than wasting time fishing for it.

[Ceno]

fines for praets and cronley farmers

If you want it…

[Knife]

Oh okay, my bad man! I agree- the camera rotation adds so much to this game (my opinion) and elevates it even further above its competitors, so whenever I see people talking about camera abuse being removed I start getting nervous that it will bleed over and somehow result in camera rotation no longer being a feature, IE; If camera abuse issue cannot be fixed through manipulating the programming of enemy AI.

[Ceno]

E: Lol this is what happens when I skim threads.

Dont inadvertently get the devs to remove the option of camera rotation because you dont like the exploit in SR

Camera rotation has nothing to do with the existence of the exploit. It enables the exploit, sure, but I’m 99% sure @Valinov was referring to “removing the exploit” with this quote:

So do we get bonus points for not using camera abuse? Because even Sr 75 is much harder by not using it.

Tbh I really wish it was removed awhile ago.

I agree with the sentiment you each share - camera rotation is by far GD’s biggest advantage over its competitors. However, I’m also a strong advocate for the removal of aggro abuse in SR. I believe a ‘fix’ has already been identified, but it hasn’t been implemented because of public outcry at the notion. But, as Valinov said,

this is not he place for this discussion.

[Maya]

the way i see it - there’s literally no difference between agro abuse (pulling bosses one by one w/o camera rotation) and camera abuse. So unless you’re fighitng all boss arena simultaneously, i consider sr75-76 to not be worth a point.

There is a big difference between using the camera thingy(I don’t like to call it abuse) and not using it.

Mostly because even with perfect control, if you just try to straight up aggro abuse, you can still easily end up pulling 1 or 2 bosses in the small room as of the current patch.

But rotate the camera and zoom in; you can aggro them one by one without a sweat. Yes, zooming in also works in addition to rotating the camera.

[Duchy]

There is a big difference between using the camera thingy(I don’t like to call it abuse) and not using it.

Mostly because even with perfect control, if you just try to straight up aggro abuse, you can still easily end up pulling 1 or 2 bosses in the small room as of the current patch.

But rotate the camera and zoom in; you can aggro them one by one without a sweat. Yes, zooming in also works in addition to rotating the camera.

I pull more of them often even with camera pointed away from them, especially in that small boss room. I would say like 1 in 5 times in that small room.

[Dmt]

And how did we play after the FG release… Overbuffed merciless SR with double Gravas, noone knew about camera abuse… Oh, wait, we played w/o abusing camera

[Maya]

There is a big difference between using the camera thingy(I don’t like to call it abuse) and not using it.

Mostly because even with perfect control, if you just try to straight up aggro abuse, you can still easily end up pulling 1 or 2 bosses in the small room as of the current patch.

But rotate the camera and zoom in; you can aggro them one by one without a sweat. Yes, zooming in also works in addition to rotating the camera.

I pull more of them often even with camera pointed away from them, especially in that small boss room. I would say like 1 in 5 times in that small room.

Zoom in max. That is the fwuffy trick for SR 90+ :3

[fordprefect]

Mostly because even with perfect control, if you just try to straight up aggro abuse, you can still easily end up pulling 1 or 2 bosses in the small room as of the current patch.

Aggro abuse is just rng as mutators. There is no certainty of your little steps won’t pull more than one creature and sometimes even I move furher from the boss I want it to be the last, while pulling the closest one can trigger more and as a chain reaction I have to deal with all. For some builds it’s easier to kite when you have to deal with all but for melee builds it’s harder. So it’s just dumb luck. Yeah you get %50 of the time 1 or at most 2 of them at the same time with this method and I see it as a tactic not an abuse. Because when I first enter the room and if non of them jump at me right at the beginning, I check the bosses and calcute which one or two I can handle first. I consider the possibilty of pulling two while this process. But rotating camera provides you a pulling success. And that success is equal to most elite builds’ SR performance.

PS: I fixed the camera rotation. It’s stable and map always looks the north, I removed the keybind so I can not accidently change the angle. I also zoom out max when I first entered the game with a character because I’m more comfortably like that. I never zoom-in in the boss rooms either. I like to see all as much as I can. Also there is a map bug for a few patches. Minimap sometimes doesn’t show the boss icon so you only see it on big map by clicking ‘‘M’’. And I sometimes encounter that boss icons doesn’t show up even on big map. So I blind fighted in boss rooms too.

[Duchy]

I have max zoom out, that will be it. But I don’t like that close zoom in like PoE has that is just unplayble to me camera so close to character.

[Maya]

I have max zoom out, that will be it. But I don’t like that close zoom in like PoE has that is just unplayble to me camera so close to character.