If somebody does that, then not even infinite stash would ultimately stop him. 
cannot keep such player here no matter what they change.
2 Likes
To be clear: I do not think it’s easy per se despite you implying otherwise. I just don’t think it’s as complex as you people make it sound. In terms of Crate’s capabilities vs the implementation challenges. They are veteran devs. They can plan, develop, implement, test and deploy on a far more professional level than this thread’s ‘potential game breaking bugs’ speculations. All these issues and MOAR will be addressed during the development/implementation.
I am not a publisher’s representative and you are not Crate’s lawyers - you don’t have to be that protective against potential dangers (that are based on your assumptions).
It’s extra time and resources, extra work in a possibly busy schedule. I acknowledge all of that. In no way I am trying to diminish the efforts.
What I find bizarre, though, is how you assume the potential risks would be a real thing to even bring them into conversation. It’s the same as assuming that Crate would do a poor job. I thought it was obvious, but I guess I have to spell this - I am asking for a well designed and well functioning stash. Not a half baked one.
I assume that if Crate will implement something, that something will be well thought out, tested, solid and safe to use.
But to be fair, you make a point none the less and it deserves to be noted.
Technical challenges and risks should not be taken out of the consideration.
My point was our discussion had many different angles on both sides to classify it as the tunnel vision, are you sure you’re disagreeing on that? 
Anyhow, ironically enough, we have already passed over the fundamental change argument. If it’s optional - it does not change the game at all unless you choose to. Like color blindness option does not affect your game if you don’t turn it on.
At least my own stance was to keep the possibility of playing with vanilla stash for those who want it.
You have a specific style of playing the game, which you described in the other thread and it’s cool.
But not everyone is a mental gymnast. To me and many others having to get rid of valuable loot makes the game less enjoyable. It’s a problem to throw away a set piece that you haven’t fully explored yet. Like if you are a farmer and you have rich harvest and only can store a small part of it. Having to get rid of something you worked towards to is commonly perceived as not enjoyable.
Besides, the unlimited stash would also solve the item management pain, as the player wouldn’t have to switch between the characters and browse their inventories/bank tabs to have all items in one easy to access place. And that is QoL for sure.
1 Like
I think you’re leaning too much to the one side, reality exists somewhere in the middle. I’m that guy but after some discussion here, I’m going to have another look into things. I can almost feel the cash for the expac leaving my wallet already.
what i find bizzare is you completely, repeatedly, ignoring the mentions of the devs previously literally stating this as a matter of issue themselves
yes, it’s that simple, devs themselves have said there is issues with making these stash changes, and that there are potential bug conflicts they might not wanna risk
sure, with enough dev time and resources stuff could surely be ironed out, but that doesn’t minimize the initial complexity of the issue “the way GD works” and the greater potential issue for bugs/critical fail “the way GD works”, and thus the “simple” feature becomes a huge task/resource investment “to get it right”, while then still leaving enough tiny room on the table for a bad bug causing player items to go poof, then deemed not worth the risk.
it’s not so much us unnecessarily acting like lawyers for Crate, as it is just us utterly baffled when players casually reject them as if nothing/not a concern and a non-valid reason “when devs have stated similar technical issues before with expanding stash” as this topic pops up over the years… 
if one needs a concrete example go back to the AoM days and look at the posts about a handful of people’s stash going poof after the stash changes/upgrade update
2 Likes
Would be nice to have a sticky post somewhere from the devs saying they are not doing this so we can stop taking up space on the forums and reddit with these posts and people can just post their opinions about it there.
3 Likes
Okay, bad me. Please educate me. Provide sources of your mentioned devs statements. It is your argument, so support it. I’d like to see the exact wording they used. You do make it sound like a much greater challenge than I do, so please, let’s see how it sounded from the devs.
You can’t expect everyone who got tired of the stash limitations and come here to tell about it to investigate devs’ statements on the subject, consider potential technical issues of the increased stash, explain why they don’t use stash tools or that they don’t have specific mindset to truly enjoy the game with the limitations etc. Don’t be baffled that people just come here to express their experiences unprepared - it’s the most expected scenario.
And yes, it is not the players’ concern to do all that. Here is the FF feedback guideline from our lord and savior and I think it sums it up quite nicely. The points marked with bold are especially applicable for our debates.
Zantai invites players to express personal experience. He doesn’t need defending. The only requirement is to respect the forum guidelines and it says nothing about being aware of devs statements on technical limitations of the engine if they want to say their stash is too small.
So less gatekeeping would be appreciated.
I didn’t see anyone who asked for the stash enlargement casually rejecting the devs statements (which they didn’t even see, mind you). Nor were they disrespectful or dismissive towards beloved Crate. But I did see a share of lazily put arguments or lack of ability to comprehend what they are arguing against coming from the pro-limited stash crowd. It’s baffling too, you know.
YES!
1 Like
i’m not, you’re confusing you with all; you’re getting special treatment 
it’s actually not super unreasonable to have some expectation of people to get some consideration for issue X when that is raised. It is however extremely narrow-minded to dismiss it and assume everything is equally possible or easy “Just because we want it”, and maintain a zero understanding for limitations being possible to exist or being more complicated than initially thought “because hey matrix wizards”
not defending Zantai nor Crate, (nor are the other pro-limited stash crowd btw); you are being given their perspective and experience on the matter, both as an equal counter argument “against”(it is afterall a feature that would change their game too) but also as snack in the bagpack to help better come to terms with maybe why it might not happen. (No wrong doing in making requests, but you also took it beyond just that initial ask - heck this aint even your thread)
not gatekeeping, heck not even demanding your consideration merely suggesting it gets applied…
1 Like
Appreciated, but you did use plural 
:
Semantics aside, your point of people rejecting the (yet-to-be-seen) dev statements on technical problems of GD engine is pretty ridiculous. Not just because it’s not written with big letters somewhere you cannot miss, but also because they are not supposed to know the technical stuff to begin with.
I agree it’s not unreasonable to consider the efforts needed to materialize the desired results. But it’s not mandatory. It is not extremely narrow-minded when a player expresses his frustration with some aspect of the game. He is the player, the customer, not the dev. He has all the right to simply say ‘I want big stash’ and not be jumped on with all sorts of complexities coming from different kinds of orthodox posters. Refer to the Zantai tip #2.
Are you Zantai’s speaker? Are you Crate or Zantai? Isn’t it a bit rich of you to tell me about their perspectives and experiences? We’ll get to the perspectives part in the end of this post. 
And yes, it’s another thread, so what? The subject is pretty much the same, the discussion goes on.
‘Mere suggesting’ is quite an understatement considering our debates. You were pretty driven in what you call ‘suggesting’.
May I ask that we close the question of posters not knowing the technical aspects of GD engine being okay? Meaning, it’s okay for folks to ask for big stash without hearing ‘mere suggestions’ from you (or anyone else except Crate) on this matter? Take a look at Zantai’s guidelines, it should help. 
As for the special treatment of the bad me, I am still curious to see those dev statements you kept mentioning numerous times. Would you kindly present them?
1 Like
not really, because our interaction can be summed up as follows
poster says X or responds to you with X
you effectively replies “you’re BS’ing me bruh”
i’m interjecting with “he’s not not bs’ing you”
which then gets expanded on “for your consideration” to not just brush things off as has been…
i’m doing neither, it’s amazing you fail to see that.
that mention was in regards to the other users
as for the “speaking for the devs part”, you’re being given the same regurgitated answers for a reason; that very reason being in feedback guidelines you’re trying to use to further brush off remarks towards you 
^this is why you see players parrot prior dev responses because as far they’ve stated this type of topic is been discussed to death
and since they might not tell you, now you know because other players told you… “shared community information”
may i ask you both understand those guidelines is not being broken, and why you’re being fed XY responses…
the special treatment is you get to dig up the links yourself, because’ i’m not gonna do it for you - it’s not my job if you want to know more about a subject than has been presented, nor has your attitude warranted me bothering to provide it for you
i’ll give you the same answer go search for it if you care to know more, browse through all of Zantai’s posts here and on steam(reddit?) in response to this topic theme…
1 Like
Why do threads here keep turning into wall of text discussions about semantics of conversation rather than the actual topic?
It’s not hard to demonstrate the issue. I like to play HC, therefore I can’t use the personal stash for important items. I also like to play a bunch of different characters involving different classes, damage types and skills. My favourite part of this is the levelling process, so I like to have some twink gear (i.e. the gear I found to inspire the build in the first place) available along the way. Then there’s the end-game gear I’ll work towards, plus all the interesting set pieces and unique gear that might inspire other builds, but is not craftable or easy to obtain (MI’s with good rolls, full sets, Boss uniques, etc). Then there is of course a tab reserved for components, elixirs, relics etc. Even in SC, you then become slave to mules and jumping around characters to find where you stashed the gear. I thought we’d grown past having to have mules as a solution, though 3rd party stash tools are there for those that want an infinite catalogue (which isn’t me).
Stop telling others they don’t need the space they say they do.
The assumption/accusation that those complaining just don’t know how to manage their stash properly is condescending and annoying.
3 Likes
On one side it doesn’t seem this topic was covered in any recent dev log, so in theory thread could be closed, on the other side I’m happy people are and might continue bumping it (even if talking points stray too far from the subject) as there are pretty much no tools to apply pressure that would lead to changes other than the will of the consumers, when considering upcoming changes to the game.
One thread is borderline nothing, but it’s better than nothing.
I’m just checking to see if there’s some mod/dev icon present among the replies, but the last sentence from the post above caught my attention:
It is very condescending and annoying and ultimately- comes off as slightly ill-willed, even if unintentionally.
I’m still waiting for any serious counterargument for such change.
Leaving aside lazy, disregarding arguments (‘that’s the dev vision, dude’) and acknowledged, possible hard-coded tech debts in the engine, none of the approaches to this issue produce a sensible reason why this current situation shall continue unchanged.
First thing- it’s pretty funny, as people doing inventory Tetris are spending a lot of time on it, and are very good at it. Personally, I’ve probably spent (counting from WAY before components start stacking) more time on managing stash and mules, than I’ve spent playing both Neverwinter Nights.
If there are people having problems with it, it’s the ones throwing everything into the void of inventory editors, letting the script assign the numbers and sort it out :^)
Everybody plays differently, but not only mentioned by others infinite stash is overkill, but even mentioned by me 50x shared stash is an overkill. In practice when it comes to shared stash, I’m only interested in having all armor in one place + couple of tabs for jewelry and shareable components.
Already I’m mentally allocating all shields to the main sword&board character, all magic off-hands to the main caster, and all 2h melee to such character, same with firearms…1h melee and magic off-hands are tricky, as shared by a lot of classes and builds, but whatever.
In the end, it’s just about LESS inconvenience and less time wasted on switching mules, nothing more. Loot is a core mechanic, and managing it over hundreds or a few thousand hours over… decades (since TQ) is just really. really. exhausting.
From a lore perspective it’s ridiculous a demi-god hero, slaying millions (millions must die!), drowning in resources, can’t afford a few chests, while could buy an entire village or castle.
From a design perspective it’s borderline hostile to players that would use it.
It doesn’t benefit developers at all- what, I should throw that unique item away, and next time when I need it (and remember its existence without having to browse online databases) I should… farm for it for an extra 5 or 50 hrs? While having 1400hrs already sunk into this game? Are you out of your mind?
There is no benefit- people bought the game, and expansions, recommended it and continue to do so, maybe reviewed it on Steam and other places. Being able to store armor together won’t make them stop picking loot, or stop playing the game. If anything- being able to conjure items from the Void makes me want to do that, as outside of leveling and building char, there’s mostly just loot and immersion around growing in wealth and power.
I always pick all loot, to compare it to copies already own (and throw away weaker variants). Nothing changes, besides the need to go to the menu and load ‘mule #11- pants’.
Somebody’s experience with the game is tampered when other people don’t have to reload their characters?
And it’s not a small issue. And even if someone thinks that way, it’s still a base of the main game loop that repeats with a very high frequency, over an ungodly amount of hours. More than most games would be courageous to even ask for. In a series with lower quality and fun factor, I’d quit pushing forward after completing Immortal Throne once.
It’s not a PvP game. There is no advantage to gain by being able to see more items at the same time.
I checked a couple of inv managers in their newest builds, and the amount of extra busy work and clicking is as bad as it was, and none of them are a solution.
2 Likes
2 Likes
@Gnomish_Inquisition
Sir, I am stopping this. You’re far beyond ‘merely suggesting my consideration’. Your behaviour is closer to the other end of the spectrum. All the efforts you’ve put into proving otherwise, prove the opposite. I do not need your ‘mere suggestions’.
Not gonna address any of that semantical debris of yours for reasons, but mainly because it derails the thread.
You failed to support your main argument and there’s no point in continuing.
@Everyone
Apologies, everyone, for being guilty of dragging the discussion away from the topic.
While I believe that the infinite stash would mean the final solution, in no way I am trying to dismiss what others have to say (with some well-earned exceptions obviously).
Thank you for the quote. Still, one can hope, speak up, listen and change mind.
2 Likes
Unfortunately, those reasons why where provided back when the game had only 6-8 classes. Now we will have 10 with a heap more items… I haven’t seen a recent statement that doesn’t just refer back to “already discussed” instead of considering the current/future context of the game.
1 Like
only regards to infinite storage,
as for regular stash expansion or even just the "single stash tab upgrade per expansion"trend there has been no official confirmation or rejection yet
that’s all there has been so far directly related to FoA stash stuff
2 Likes
Remember when Grim Internals was a thing? What will we do when the Devs can no longer update their 3rd party inventory management tool?
Grim Internals was an awesome tool for Grim Dawn that was created and maintained by a 3rd party. When Grim Dawn received an update, that 3rd party had to also update their code to make it compatible. When the 3rd party no longer updated Grim Internals, it became unsupported and on the following update of Grim Dawn it was broken. Fortunately the wonderful people at Crate created a Beta channel for the previous version of Grim Dawn for those of us who still wanted to use Grim Internals. For what it is worth, that love from Crate helped me to provide high quality detailed feedback when finishing my Beta Testing for the Reign of Terror Mod.
Now think about those 3rd party “Stash” tools… Don’t those also require updates when the game gets updated? What happens to all of your stuff when the 3rd party dev moves on to other things or is no longer available to provide updates. Keeping in mind these 3rd party tools are created and maintained for free, it could certainly happen.
So, wouldn’t it be better for everyone if the extra stash were baked into the game now instead of waiting for development of the 3rd party tool to become unsupported and no longer function?
I am not advocating unlimited stash! However, the wonderful team at Crate has added a lot of new items and classes to the game without substantially increasing the stash space in recent years. I have the personal opinion the game is due a storage update to help us out with stashing all of the extra content.
1 Like
Go back to manually moving/renaming the inventory files like we did before these tools.
Short answer, wait until someone else makes a new stash tool. There’s already one to replace GI for a lot of its features that Crate didn’t add to the game.
From a previous thread on this back in 2020
As I stated, I did Beta Testing for RoT. The stash space in that mod was wonderful and helpful. If you haven’t checked it out (and it’s still a thing), go check it out to see what they did. If they can do it then I fail to understand why it can’t be done in the base game, but that’s neither here or there…
At any rate, I was just sharing an opinion of mine. No additional replies necessary. I’ve posted my idea/opinion about storage for the Crate Dev team if they are interested. If they are not interested then so be it…
Oh yea, this post isn’t intended in any negative way. Much respect Medea!
100% droprate on target farmable MIs + this Twitch means you don’t really need to keep 1000s and 1000s of items for nicher and nicher builds.
You can just store whatever crafting material you need to do the affix switch, then go fetch your item and manipulate it whenever you need to. You don’t need to hoard perfect items for every level for every conceivable build when you can craft them.
My guess is that FOA will mitigate the need for a gigantic bank - you’ll only need space for non-craftable/transmutable legendaries, cash, and materials. [edit - and mandates/warrants/consumables]
2 Likes