Leech on skills with %WD

[sir_spanksalot]

Can you please edit what you said with the following terms:

1. Global adcth: G-adcth
2. Skill specific adcth: S-adcth

[hammyhamster1]

So I’ll assume for now that skill flat sees nothing from %WD. Until I find something relevant.

But knowing %WD is included in intrinsic leech is a good learning.

[sir_spanksalot]

skill flat sees nothing from %WD

how is this related to adcth

[hammyhamster1]

Here is relevant portion of current misunderstanding:

Skill with inherent %WD and no other relevant skill leech does see leech ( if any %adcth to the %WD ) on the flat portion of the skill that is not included in the %WD.

Afaik, this was done by the devs to mitigate the resulting adcth double-% reduction in the %WD portion itself - which could be almost nothing on a small %WD skill. But on some skills with very high %WD, this is pretty damn strong when skill flat is also included.

[sir_spanksalot]

So I’ll assume for now that skill flat sees nothing from %WD

Right. Ok. Flat damage on skill will not benefit from any adcth applied via the %WD component of the skill. Yes.

[hammyhamster1]

Ok so I think that II found the thread mechanics questions. Here is where I got confused. Note Korsar’s comments in particular.

I am still confused, but perhaps this is only applicable to AA replacers? Hmm, and maybe there was another thread.

Oh well.

[sir_spanksalot]

I would think that the mechanic is consistent on all skills with %WD.

I also would trust korsar.

He and ptiro do crazy amounts of testing.

[hammyhamster1]

So…what do you conclude about that discussion?

[sir_spanksalot]

That global adcth applies to a skill’s flat damage proportionate to the inherent %WD on the skill itself.

[hammyhamster1]

So this example would now be accurate, then. (I’m just using Bat as an example for leech types, not trying to Trigger anyone…)

1. It has 22% WD = x% adcth multiplied by 22%. For simple example lets say 10% adcth = effective adcth of (0.22 * 0.1 = 0.022) * 0.22 actual weapon damage. So flat here gets 0.022% leech.
2. It has inherent 45% adcth and this 45% includes the %WD portion on the skill itself.

[sir_spanksalot]

It has inherent 45% adcth and this 45% includes the %WD portion on the skill itself.

If my understanding is correct - yes.

But 22%WD * 45%adcth * 2 projectiles = ~20% WD worth of adcth.

I.e. - if I have 100 flat damage, I’ll lifesteal 20 hp

I’m of course ignoring life leech res

@ceno - would the above be correct? or am I once again spouting crap?

[Ceno]

So flat here gets 0.022% leech.

It kind of depends on the way you think of the math, but the more intuitive approach is to argue that the flat gets 2.2% ADCTH.

There had been some long-standing falsehoods about the way the mechanic works, in part due to game-guide irregularities and whatnot. But essentially what happens is that you can think of % Weapon Damage as being a stat that is a composite of all the (offensive) stats on your character sheet added into one line to keep things succinct. In other words, your flat Physical, your flat Bleed, your flat Pierce, etc., including other effects like Chance to Stun, ADCTH, and Health Reduction. These stats then apply howsoever they’re relevant to the rest of the skill, which usually isn’t that much except for ADCTH.

So, in your example, you have a skill with 22% Weapon Damage and you have 10% global ADCTH. That essentially means you get 22% of 10 (or, easier, 10% of 22) ADCTH for all the damage that skills deals. Now, yes, that means that you technically multiply the damage dealt by 0.022 to get the health returned, but it’s not 0.022% (or 0.00022).

[hammyhamster1]

Right, I messed up with the %. smh.

[Ceno]

@ceno - would the above be correct? or am I once again spouting crap?

That’s correct as far as I can tell.

[banana_peel]

ADCTH works for whole direct damage, caused by skill (both Weapon Damage and flat damage added by skill itself). However, ADCTH added not by skill itself (i.e. on items, etc) is penaltized if skill deals less than 100% Weapon Damage (accordingly to % Weapon Damage). If skill doesnt deal any Weapon Damage (so Weapon damage = 0%), ADCTH “multiplier” for it will be 0% as well (except ADCTH added by skill itself - it is always in effect at 100% power).

That’s literally what i said but in fewer words. Not sure where did you get confused.

Global adcth applies to WD, the source of WD is irrelevant. Skill specific adcth applies to all dmg on the skill. Some skills with adcth, like Ulzuin’s Wrath, dont even have WD.

To comment on what was said in that very old topic bo Korsar:

Some Mechanics Questions

ADCtH applies to ALL damage of the skill, not only WD part.

And there is even a proof in a screenshot (although i can’t quite see what exactly has happened there).

Here is my small experience. I’ve made a testing build with FS almost fully leveled throughout the line. The damage was absulotely huge. HOWEVER. I was dying a lot because of pathetic leech. Why? Because my WD with dual Stormhearts was very low WITHOUT Abominable Might proc. With it the leech was fine. For me that was a clear proof that global adcth applies ONLY to the WD part. Apparently this rule might not be universal…

[sir_spanksalot]

Easy way to tell - remove skill points in nodes on static strike, brimstone, etc. and see how it impacts adcth.

It seems weird for it to be inconsistent.

Maybe it could be due to your very low %ligthning damage on the spec?

After all, you were stacking flat damage over %damage in that build iirc

[banana_peel]

To expand on it. A decent DW FS build has what around 500k dps after RRs and WPS?

If global adcth (lets say it’s 12%) was applied to the full dmg, the char would be leeching at the rate of 60k health per second. 0.2 sec to leech from 0 to full. We all know this is far, far from being the case…

[sir_spanksalot]

Could it be due to life leech res, fumble pools, CC’s, etc?

[Ceno]

Yes. 90%+ life leech res is pretty cool.

[banana_peel]

The thing is, this is literally the first time i see such problem: huge dmg and no leech. As it so coincedentially happens, this is the first time i have a build with relatively low WD. Other FS builds, including lightning based, but with normal WD, performed well.