[Mechanics] Global Elemental dmg converted to X now occuring *last* in order (*after* single ele>X)?

Thanks for this. This probably isn’t going to get the recognition it deserves, but this is amazing.

@cinder - I mean…‘naked cruci’ was an arbitrary term I did invent, then it became part of the vernacular. So who knows?

I remember someone commenting in one of my YT videos once, ‘why does it say naked clear, when you have items equipped.’

I choked on my water.

:smile:

‘Naked cruci’ does serve a real purpose in our forum discourse, though, since distinguishes ‘non-buffend/bannered’ from both ‘3buffs/1banner cruci’ and vanilla ‘cruci’ (which can actually refer to both of the aforementioned categories as kind of a supercategory).

But if conversion priority from skills & granted skills really doesn’t differ in any way (like skill mod conversion and skill transmuter conversion are treated the same, too), then… yes. Then it would be 100% redundant. :stuck_out_tongue:

Edit: calling it ‘naked cruci’ is pretty funny, though. So thank you for that :smiley:

I’m fairly certain of this. At least, if I’m recalling some of the testing I did ages ago.

Where it gets tricky is that some nodes in skill lines are treated as an independent damage source (e.g. explosive strike, soulfire, nightfall).

What this means is that transmuter level conversions (aka, skill modifiers) will NOT affect them.

A good example would be EoR. Even if scythe of tenebris might read ‘100% physical converted to chaos to EoR,’ the physical damage on soulfire itself will remain unconverted.

Global conversions matter in these cases.

I’m pretty sure I saw this used somewhere before you brought it up, too…

Wow! Thank you, that is good to know!

Right. So that’s another reason why EoR has been nerfed extremely hard. Moreso than other skills, EoR truly shines when you’re able to convert it all to the same damage type.

Which is partially why on those recent dunefiend builds on the forum, you see ya &/or x1x1x1x2 stacking things like gallstone, and pestilence amulet for better phys/acid conversion on soulfire.

In most cases, the skill description hints at which skill node is (or isn’t) an independent damage source. Typically it’ll say something about how the skill node will damage ‘nearby enemies’

Huh.

That makes it pretty hard for the phys dmg on Soulfire to be touched by most builds, right? Because phys>X converion usually comes in such small doses…

Is that part of why full phys EoR with Beronath sword is still so strong? Because it can actually convert 100% – with absolute ease?

Yes, and no.

Basically, we can think of spin2win builds as having 2 attacks occuring simultaneously - EoR, and soulfire.

Because these are separate damage instances, they are both gimped by enemy armor.

So if my in-game value of EoR shows a damage value of 10k, and soulfire having a damage value of 10k, that damage would be dealt as 2 separate attacks amounting to a total of 20k.

However, if I were attacking a target with 10k armor and 100% absorption, then I would deal 0 damage to it, despite a sheet DPS value of 20k.

EDIT: Of course this would be excellent on enemies with low armor, or low phys res.

Which is why in my WB EoR build, I did everything I could to maximize %physical damage and -RR

Yeah, EoR with its ~10 tiny ticks per second is quite problematic in that way…

But it works very well if done right, regardless, doesn’t it?

(man… we are so far off-topic right now :laughing:)

Right. PM’d you instead. :stuck_out_tongue:

Thank you :stuck_out_tongue:

But I’m wondering what to do with this thread now, in any case…

Should I just do a quick update in OP with our new theories and then leave it until this info it can be moved to guides/tutorials in a neater fashion? :confused:

I would wait for Z to let us know about the changes he’s going to make, because he did mention that the order-you-equip-items-thing is bugged. Once those changes are made, and the dust has settled, it’ll be worth consolidating all this into a post.

What would be inconvenient, however, is to do up a long us explanation, only for things to change again

Yeah… If they just changed the whole order-of-equipment thing into sth with fixed priorities, this whole issue could go away pretty easily :slight_smile:

And that’s what his post further up seemed to indicate, at least to me…

(If this issue has been known to exist for a while now I do wonder why they didn’t do anything about it earlier though)

The issue above is going to be addressed in v1.1.5.0.

For those interested in the real nity-gritty details, the order of operations for competing conversions (ex. cold -> fire and cold -> aether) is intended to be as follows:

  • Right Hand
  • Left Hand
  • Neck
  • Medal
  • Right Ring
  • Left Ring
  • Belt
  • Head
  • Torso
  • Shoulders
  • Hands
  • Legs
  • Feet
  • Relic

Sets, though with the way sets are set up now such a conflict is not likely, are evaluated in order of their dbr ID.

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@Zantai Wouldn’t it be better to just make 3ele and 1ele parallel and additive? I can’t think of a build which would break the game thanks to it. On the contrary, it would help non-Clairvoyant binders, certain chaos builds (Voidsoul), raise the value of conversion belts and MIs, help all those non-synergistic builds based on conversion.

@zantai - Just to be doubly sure, Z, right hand here refers to main hand, yes? i.e. the character’s right, not the player’s right.

I made a test on Panetti and equipped full
Elemental to Vitality gear

but I have Fire to Aether on the belt

Yet I have only Vitality damage in-game on Panetti.

But I don’t have 100% Ele to Vit before belt on this priority list

Would anyone be so kind and explain to me how it works now?
This is Grim Tools
https://www.grimtools.com/calc/O2Gnmd6N
I don’t have 100% Ele to Vit from Weapon + Off-hand due to really low rolls

I’m going to guess that elemental conversion is still a unique step, first in the order.

The issue that was addressed was that for the same type (ie, elemental or fire/cold/elec), this new order takes effect.

The old problem was that you could equip items in a certain order to change the portions of similar types being converted to diverging types. Now it is consistent wrt that gear order.

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All same type conversion summarize at order of highest priority. For your build Ele to Vit counts as 145% at Right hand queue.

I can confirm elemental conversion comes at least before fire, ice, and lightning conversions.

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I can confirm situation when fire, ice, and lightning comes before elemental.