[Mechanics] Global Elemental dmg converted to X now occuring *last* in order (*after* single ele>X)?

Well. What can you say for next example:
Orb of C’hthon buff converts ele to chaos and Warpfire converts cold to fire. OFF (My favorite test skill) Cold damage totally converts to chaos that means ele have priority over cold.
On the other hand, Oathkeeper Path of the Three converts fire to acid, and firestrike split fire conversion between acid and chaos, that means fire have priority over ele.
There are many other examples where order of gaining conversion (order of item equiping in particular) influence final damage.

I believe it was me a hammyhamster unless you have more ancient history in mind. It was around 1.0.6.0. Back then the order depended on the order of equipping gear.

Interesting. So if I’m understanding you correctly, there is no fixed sequence in the order of conversion when it comes to single elemental damage conversion and elemental damage conversion?

As for the blood orb/warpfire test…IIRC, warpfire SHOULD take precedence over blood orb. you should be getting 50% fire, and 50% chaos.

^Can someone smarter than me confirm this? Because if I’m right, it’s definitely a bug.

As I see it, there is peobably more difficult sequence.

Dear god, please, no! :tired_face:

Can you maybe post a screenshot of your OFF tooltip dmg breakdown with warpfire & blood orb?

I did try the gear equipment order thing with my vit oppressor btw.; the conversion didn’t change for me regardless of how I did it, at least on that build…

Maybe you need to have over 100% conversion just from gear to see different results or sth. (mine only got there with Pot3)?

Sure, later today

Cool :slight_smile:

I just kinda wanna figure out how all this crazy fits together, now…

:nerd_face:

Here’s to hoping that a dev will reply to this thread. It’s all very confusing.

There was a conversation on the forum between Zantai and Jov, where he asked about this.

Iirc Global elemental conversions come first, and then the ones that target single elements.

It’s not the case mate. We dug up ALL the posts with you, JoV, Z, and me here in the thread.

At the end of the day, Z said something along the lines of, ‘determining the order would need some digging into’

I’ll look again. But the order is reflected in the numbers i get sometimes in game

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Yes this is the threadhttps://forums.crateentertainment.com/t/elemental-single-element-dmg-conversion-question-or-its-a-bug/41903/5

And the answer is not definitive. Might be just my mind that says global elemental comes first because it make sense to me.

@superfluff: Burn the heretic! Purge the deceiver!

Perhaps this can be tested with a Boneslicer or Baldir and an Octavius or Spellschourge piece.

Just get some flat fire, cold, lightning dmg on the test char and see how numbers look

I’m not sure if I have the time to test different sources of single elemental>X + elemental>X conversion today; but I can show you the results we got with my Blightlord Oppressor, for comparison:
(Build: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/YZeKvaQ2)

Pictures of in-game dmg breakdown (fire/ele>X testing)

RE dmg breakdown with 100% fire>X conversion and ~50% ele>vit
[50% fire>acid from 17/12 Path of the Three + 50% fire>vit from Word of Solael off-hand + 50% ele>vit from Lunal’Valgoth’s Girdle]


RE dmg breakdown with 96% fire>X conversion and ~50% ele>vit
[46% fire>acid from 15/12 Path of the Three + 50% fire>vit from Word of Solael off-hand + 50% ele>vit from Lunal’Valgoth’s Girdle]

Indicating that fire>X+fire>X conversion applies additively but fire>X+ele>X conversion applies multiplicatively.


RE dmg breakdown with overkill ~135% fire>X conversion and ~50% ele>vit
[35% fire>vit from M. Darkflame Chestguard + 50% fire>acid from Path of the Three + 50% fire>vit from Word of Solael off-hand + 50% ele>vit from Lunal’Valgoth’s Girdle]

RE dmg breakdown with ~135% fire>X conversion and * without* ~50% ele>vit
[35% fire>vit from M. Darkflame Chestguard + 50% fire>acid from Path of the Three + 50% fire>vit from Word of Solael off-hand]

The fact that the acid dmg on RE does not decrease with 50% ele>vit as compared to without (save for 1 single point likely due to slightly different +spirit values on both belts) indicates that the ele>vit conversion does not convert ~50% of all fire dmg to vit before fire>X applies, but rather that it only converts half of the remaining 0% fire damage after fire>vit had its turn.

Because, if this were not the case and elemental>X damage occured first, Path of the Three could only convert 25% of fire>acid.

The testing variables are a bit messy in regards in the second part (arguing with acid conversion because why take the easy way? Complicated is awesome! :roll_eyes:), but I can’t find my screenshots of ~90% fire>vit with+without 50%ele>vit right now…

Sorry for that.

I also added these pictures to the OP for the sake of completeness.

As I promised.
Warpfire 48% cold to fire
Decree of Van Aldrich 46% elemental to aether

Elemental Buff vs. Cold Item

Blood Rite disabled

Blood Rite enabled - elemental have priority over cold

Same for Might of Beronath - elemental have priority

Elemental Item vs. Cold Item

Warpfire equiped first, Aldrich - second

Vice versa: Aldrich first

Total cold damage same: “Base cold” x (1-0.46) x (1-0.48) x bonuses
But Fire and Aether are different!

Elemental vs. Elemental

Beronath and Orb irrelevant to order

Beronath disabled:

Beronath enabled:

Beronat buff irrelevant to Aldrich equipment order.

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Hoo boy…

what a mess.

:persevere:

Pretty clear to me.

  1. Single element to x and elemental to y are separate; one happens first, and the other coverts the leftovers

  2. Togglables function like passives which come before conversion from gear (nothing to do with elemental coming first, op gave an example where Path of the Three’s fire to acid came before elemental to sth from gear)

  3. If single element to x and elemental to y both come from gear, order of equipping gear decides

  4. Still don’t know what happens if single element to x and elemental to y both come from passives/togglables (as in Path if the There + Beronath).

Damn, I was just in the middle of my own writeup of this and now you take all the credit! :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

No. 3. is still curious to me, though. Will have to revise my results/re-test stuff with the knowledge that the source of the conversion (meaning skill/gear) is the most defining factor, now…
:expressionless:

Edit:

Good point; will test that, too, whilst I’m at it.

Yeah…this part’s not right, that we’ll investigate.